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Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

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51–60 of 75 posts

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#51
Wow! I absolutely love this! I will have to try it! Better C4 tooling has been something in the back of my mind for a while and this looks pretty polished.

I do have some concerns on pricing. $30-40/editor/month is pretty steep! Unless there are good tools for managing swapping users in and out of "reader" vs "editor" states across billing cycles, I think a lot of orgs will balk at this pricing. I know mine will if 98% of our ENG team isn't editing except maybe once a year.

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe on an iPad but on a phone?

Diagramming on a tablet is an interesting idea, maybe it can provide a better whiteboard-like experience.

I was thinking of consuming content only, not creating

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diagramming on a tablet is an interesting idea, maybe it can provide a better whiteboard-like experience.

I was thinking of consuming content only, not creating

Yeh it would work better for consuming

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#54
post #51

Wow! I absolutely love this! I will have to try it! Better C4 tooling has been something in the back of my mind for a while and this looks pretty polished. I do have some concerns on pricing. $30-40/editor/month is pretty steep! Unless there are good tools for managing swapping users in and out of "reader" vs "editor" states across billing cycles, I think a lot of orgs will balk at this pricing. I know mine will if 9…

Awesome, let us know your thoughts/feedback!

We have ideas to increase the capability of readers to make edit suggestions, that can be accepted by an editor. This way you can have some of the more junior team members included in the reader count.

How would this sound for you?

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#55
post #51

Wow! I absolutely love this! I will have to try it! Better C4 tooling has been something in the back of my mind for a while and this looks pretty polished. I do have some concerns on pricing. $30-40/editor/month is pretty steep! Unless there are good tools for managing swapping users in and out of "reader" vs "editor" states across billing cycles, I think a lot of orgs will balk at this pricing. I know mine will if 9…

Awesome, let us know your thoughts/feedback! We have ideas to increase the capability of readers to make edit suggestions, that can be accepted by an editor. This way you can have some of the more junior team members included in the reader count. How would this sound for you?

That's a good start!

Ultimately, I'm not just not sure what the right billing model here is. Obviously, I want to pay a "reasonable amount", but I understand you need that model to have some kind of payment floor. :)

Some major components of usage/pricing that I can think of:

- Domain Owners - some users will be subject matter experts or DRIs that have ownership over parts of the overall model. These are more likely to be editors, but even other engineers may have small tweaks (edit suggestions) for a domain someone owns

- Any given engineering user will probably not be editing for the vast majority of the time. This + your existing pricing model + edit suggestions would lead to "editors" functioning more as just "approvers". It pushes an org to have a handful of approvers and the rest of their users as commenters.

- high price anchoring - $40/user/month sounds like a lot, even if it's for only a few users. It's also a more complicated user model that makes it more difficult to integrate into IT organizations. It is easier to integrate all users uniformly at a lower price per seat. And if I have 10 people on my team, $4/user/month is the same as having one editor but far more palatable (to me).

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#56
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome, let us know your thoughts/feedback! We have ideas to increase the capability of readers to make edit suggestions, that can be accepted by an editor. This way you can have some of the more junior team members included in the reader count. How would this sound for you?

That's a good start! Ultimately, I'm not just not sure what the right billing model here is. Obviously, I want to pay a "reasonable amount", but I understand you need that model to have some kind of payment floor. :) Some major components of usage/pricing that I can think of: - Domain Owners - some users will be subject matter experts or DRIs that have ownership over parts of the overall model. These are more likely…

Thanks, great points. Especially the last one about it being difficult for an org to figure out who should be editors/readers/etc. It's definitely a challenge for us that we'll need to think more about.

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#58

I found the interactive demo overwhelming and very difficult to unpack. It would probably be much easier to understand if it was a system I worked on every day.

Maybe as the demo link we provided takes you into a flow. You can try the following one which has less going on.

https://s.icepanel.io/vmHvBHr4BeMEOa/0YRL

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#59
post #3

Is the next step creating and updating these diagrams automatically? That dream seems to come up and die in cycles over the years, but it may be possible now depending on the compute platform and network appliances you use. This push to automate by doing interesting things, like reading your network traffic ( https://www.akitasoftware.com/ ), could work here. I'm unsure, as is, how you fix the organizational and huma…

I think this is purely a tech industry problem of move as fast as possible. Other engineering disciplines have detailed diagrams (breakdown of car parts for example and how to put it back together). It is just not a priority in the tech industry. Until regulation forces fines for software bugs or outages there will never be a priority to pay people to maintain documentation.

Re: Launch HN: IcePanel (YC W23) – Onboard engineers with explorable system designs

#60
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Integration with infrastructure-as-code tools would be really interesting. Interpolation of standards.

What tools would you see IcePanel integrating with?

terraform, ansible
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