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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#301

Post by efitz »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #65
londons_explore wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are normally required to update anything an electrician touches or could impact. So if you are having a new socket added in your kitchen, then all the other sockets in the kitchen on the same circuit will need updating, and the breaker for the kitchen. But you probably won't have to have your living room rewired.

It seems US is way more overregulated when it comes to electricity or building in general.

You could leave off everything after “overregulated” and still be correct.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#302

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

iso1631 wrote: post #166
quickthrowman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement. If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it and save $2,000? Part of that price is uncertainty due to scheduling/coordinating with the siding contractor and utility. Everything after the meter, including grounding conductors, are premises wiring aka your responsibility. Having your electrical service properly grounded sure beats being electrocuted. I manage electricia…

Clearly it's not simple, but superficially you wouldn't think it was that complex. Think of the old "I could write twitter in a weekend" adage. Sure it seems simple at first glance, but once you get into it it's far more complex. A layman would think "It's a plastic box with a couple of wires in, surely it can't cost more than $200" and take more than an hour".

I think that's a poor analogy.

Most residential wiring really is as simple as it appears at first glance.

The problem is that there are a few cases where it isn't, and the issue is being able to know when that's true. This is where the skills and experience come into play.

In case I need to cite some authority, I've been wiring my own homes (with permits) for > 25 years, and was licensed by New Mexico to install my own 6.7kW solar array a couple of years ago. I'm not an electrician, however.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#303

Post by danans »

petre wrote: post #272
danans wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how would you run an instant water heater or electric induction stove then? Every apartment and house I've ever lived in had 380V three-phase right to the kitchen, I run an induction stove on 220V single phase every day here in the US.

Isn't it two phase? AFAIK in the US you have 240V two phase with 180° between them.

The US uses a single, split phase

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#304

Post by DannyBee »

jsmith45 wrote: post #123
lisper wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you upgrade your wiring? Your old breakers were the size they were for a reason.

That's not a consideration here. They were just replacing a smaller 100A panel with a larger one. with more circuit spots. That is always allowed. As long as you you use a panel that accepts the same type of breakers, you can also re-use the existing breakers, unless code require upgrading to AFCI breakers. Otherwise you swap them for new breakers of the same rating. (Assuming the US: There are some inspectors who wo…

"That is always allowed."

The last sentence you wrote is the killer. You are technically correct that changing the number of circuits in the panel is not itself disallowed. But .... you would also be hard pressed to get an AHJ to pass a number-of-circuits upgrade without knowing how many circuits you are planning on adding, and doing the feed sizing calculation to make sure you don't have to upgrade the incoming feed to support it.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#305

Post by UI_at_80x24 »

abakker wrote: post #252
londons_explore wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some countries you have a single one for the whole building, rather than one per circuit. That dramatically lowers the cost. The only real downside is that if you accidentally put your finger in the toaster, rather than just the power to your kitchen cutting off, the power to the whole house cuts off. I think thats a fine tradeoff to save $1200.

real downside: many things work poorly on gfci stuff. E.g. A miter saw or welder. I had AFCI/GFCI breakers in my garage per code, but essentially no power tools work with those kinds of circuits.

I've noticed the same thing with a cheap lemon juicer in the kitchen. I'm assuming the brushes on the DC motor are the cause.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#306

Post by bombcar »

sbradford26 wrote: post #190
bluGill wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standard non-metallic 8 gauge wire is only allowed to handle 40 amps. If you want to put 50 amps to the outlet you need more expensive wire (most likely 6 gauge, but there are other forms of 8 gauge that are approved for 50 amps). Since most stoves only need 40 amps electricians will run non-metallic 8 gauge by default and put a 40 amp breaker on it - then since there isn't such a thing as a 40 amp outlet they have a…

Yeah the main relationship that matters is the breaker to wire. There is a fun semi related thing. Can you put 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit? The answer is yes you can, but only if there is at least two receptacles, and a standard duplex outlet counts at two receptacles.

Which is another reason you don't want to oversize a breaker; you can have ten, twenty two-receptacle outlets on a single circuit, and if lots of stuff was plugged in you could easily draw tens or hundreds of amps, which would melt normal Romex pretty quickly.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#308

Post by efitz »

tstrimple wrote: post #142
Dma54rhs wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems US is way more overregulated when it comes to electricity or building in general.

And every time I see a video online of a dance floor or stadium collapsing or people getting electrocuted by accidentally touching ungrounded electrical devices I'm reminded why. That's not to say those things don't happen here, just at a lower frequency. Safety standards are written in blood after all.

Structure collapses are extremely rare, which is why they are always news. I am not unhappy with the state of regulation when it comes to building structures that have the potential to kill hundreds or thousands of people at a time.

However I think many locations in the US way overdo regulation when it comes to residential building codes. When you buy a house, you get a professional inspection. If it comes up dangerous, then you are armed with the knowledge to make a risk decision that’s right for you.

I don’t need spacecraft level engineering on my car; similarly i don’t need skyscraper level engineering on my house.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#309

Post by yboris »

lisper wrote: post #21
yboris wrote: post #17

Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for…

Did you upgrade your wiring? Your old breakers were the size they were for a reason.

I didn't touch the wiring; just made sure to use the same exact amperage (though I bought all new breakers just in case, and upgraded one to an AFCI - Michigan doesn't require AFCI on everything as the rest of the country seems to mandate). I checked the wire with wire gauge with my wire strippers to make sure 15amp wire is never behind a 20amp breaker.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#310

Post by Symbiote »

throwawayacc3 wrote: post #111
kuschku wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The service drop in EU/UK is 380V. The point stands.

That is incorrect. The EU/UK are on 230V at 50Hz at residential service entry. The point does not stand.

This varies.

Houses and apartments in Denmark have 3 phase service. My apartment's main breaker is labelled 40A @ 380V.

I believe the oven and hob make use of it, but I haven't looked myself.

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