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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#231

Post by jonesdc »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

How did you go about searching for an electrician who you trusted? Any particular sources or just calling locally?

I’m looking to get some new cabling placed since I can’t navigate within the walls

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#233

Post by vehemenz »

epistasis wrote: post #54
vehemenz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article does a disservice to its thesis by focusing on California. Half the country lives in places where subzero temperatures are an issue. Not to mention, the rest of the country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable, let alone the disposable wealth to upgrade their homes. Electric cars are still a long way from viability in most places, though it may not seem that way in California.

Nearly every state in the us has very viable solar. The blockers are not economic, but regulatory from the utility and utility commission side. There are small solar arrays all over farms in Minnesota, for example. Solar is super cheap, and only getting cheaper. Cheap enough that one can start to size your array for the seasonal minimum. And as storage gets super cheap this decade, solar plus storage are a "baseload"…

These are good points, but I would add that there are not qualified installers of solar in most areas. I'm not sure if you'd chalk that up to regulation or economics, but it's probably a little bit of both.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#234

Post by amluto »

londons_explore wrote: post #75
BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

> likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. It frustrates me that every year quite a lot of people are killed due to old houses not having whole-building GFCI's. A GFCI costs only $20 and can be installed inside 10 minutes. So it seems crazy to be letting people die... Yet typically electrical regs require that if an electrician installs a GFCI, they bring the whole house up to modern standard…

Good luck finding an easy-to-install whole house GFCI in the US market.

IMO there should be standardized trip curves so that outlet GFCIs can coordinate with branch breaker GFCIs, which can coordinate with whole-house or other larger GFCIs, etc.

You really don’t want a 5mA GFCI on your house. You do want a 5mA GFCI somewhere involved for a regular outlet, though, especially if it’s anywhere damp or wet.

(And you probably do want a GFCI tripping at a larger leakage current on any outdoor circuit. Leakage on crappy outdoor wiring is very very common and can go undetected for years. And for some reason code allows new outdoor circuits to be run in galvanized steel conduit, and there seems to be little enforcement of the use of appropriate wire nuts and such outdoors. You can buy actual high quality submersible wire nuts, and stainless steel outdoor electrical boxes exist (at absolutely obscene prices), but they’re rare. So even nominally very fancy newish buildings do things like using regular galvanized steel outlet boxes outdoors by the ocean with predictable results.)

(A GFCI outlet does not help at all of your whole outlet box floors. A 100mA GFCI upstream would presumably trip very quickly.)

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#235

Post by vehemenz »

malfist wrote: post #70
vehemenz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article does a disservice to its thesis by focusing on California. Half the country lives in places where subzero temperatures are an issue. Not to mention, the rest of the country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable, let alone the disposable wealth to upgrade their homes. Electric cars are still a long way from viability in most places, though it may not seem that way in California.

> country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable California somehow gets more sunlight than the rest of the US? If I recall for physics, the amount of light depends on the latitude, not what state you're in.

The midwest is significantly cloudier than the southwest, for example. Perhaps "effective sunlight hours" is a better phrasing.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#236

Post by vel0city »

mfer wrote: post #187
ilyt wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno, in most of those cases it seems to be direct effect of companies saving on infrastructure maintenance and then shifting the problems on customers. I'd imagine if a given line can sustain peak heat AC usage it would also just be fine with flatter profile of heating the property.

> I'd imagine if a given line can sustain peak heat AC usage it would also just be fine with flatter profile of heating the property. We aren't talking about heat and AC. We also need to cover EVs, electric tools (like chainsaws), electric heat, electric stoves, and other things. There is a push to electrify all the things.

> electric tools (like chainsaws)

The amount of electricity shifting all gas powered tools like chainsaws and lawn mowers to electricity is less than a drop in the bucket compared to the other needs. Changing all my tools from gas to battery increased my electric bill in the peak growing season by like 2.5kWh/month, compared to a usual usage of ~2,000kWh/mo. Its also a pretty easy to time shift demand and doesn't need that 2.5kWh in an instant, that was over a whole month!

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#237

Post by brianwawok »

zbrozek wrote: post #215
brianwawok wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV or not EV, I really think you want 200A service? It has been the standard for quite a few years, and I cannot imagine only having 100A service in a proper house (would be fine for an apartment or whatnot). Now I am higher electric usage than most, but I hit over 100A several times a day (but have never hit 200A and flipped my breaker). The actually switching out your circuit breaker from 100A to 200A is cheap (2-3…

Electrical code has completely unreasonable and unrealistic demand factors associated with appliances. Basically "1" for just about everything, as well as 3 watts per square foot of floor area. If you sum all of these things up, I'm well above the 200 amp service delivered to my home. Reality? I had a peak draw of 23 amps from the grid in the last year. Luckily the NEC has an escape valve for folks who can prove that…

Right, don't go off code for having to do a big upgrade like this.

I legit hit 100A several times a month. Have hit over 150A.

Easy way for me to draw 100A at once:

40A: EV charging

32A: Electric Oven warming up at max

24A: Electric Dryer

40A: HotTub jets on

40A: AC ON Max

Unlikely all of those are on full max, but it's pretty easy to imagine getting past 100A before we even touch things like lights and computers.

EV + Dryer + Hot Tub pretty much pull max for the entire run, the other stuff is more likely to cycle up and down.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#238

Post by russdill »

lisper wrote: post #21
yboris wrote: post #17

Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for…

Did you upgrade your wiring? Your old breakers were the size they were for a reason.

Even with the same size breakers you have to be careful. Many circuits in the US are wired using a shared neutral. These circuits must not share the same phase and when rewiring an entire panel this seems like it'd be an easy mistake to make.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#239

Post by anon23anon »

mikeg8 wrote: post #220
commandlinefan wrote: post #133

I thought I wanted to be an electrician growing up in the 80's, but my parents steered me away from it into the then-booming programming field. It does seem like programmers are doing a lot better than electricians these days.

Financially, yes. Physically? I’d bet good money most electricians are in much better physical shape. Pulling wire, climbing ladders, using hand tools… it’s more physically demanding than people think. (My cousin is a journeyman electrician and I helped him wire the new house I built).

well no duh that's why I go to the gym every morning. Looked at the average salary these peeps are making. Most ppl on here are making double plus some in my area as developers.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#240

Post by bombcar »

anon3846472 wrote: post #209
bombcar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that I've found the people who are comfortable with plumbing are very wary of electrical, and vice-versa. Look for a "smart heat pump" water heater and you can probably get away without actually upgrading service unless you want to - 100 amp service can support a stove and water heater especially if the water heater is "smart" enough to not run when the stove is running. You can also find a friendly…

In Taiwan, electricians and plumbers are the same occupation. When you're getting your certifications, you have to get both. You can specialize in one, but you have to know plumbing and electrical work to pass.

I was thinking more on the DIY side; I'm entirely comfortable with electrical, but I worry I wouldn't "do" plumbing right (soldering copper, mainly; I have no issue with PEX); a friend of mine is the opposite.
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