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Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

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21–30 of 162 posts

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#21
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also hold this unpopular opinion : the maker movement has ultimately failed. I am not fully certain why, but think social factors are partly to blame. What I saw (in the UK) was that the new generation of middle-class, hobbyist makers weren't interested in engaging with and learning from the historical, working-class manufacturing sector.

Would you mind expounding upon this comment? Against what goal did it fail to deliver? I think I was more hopeful a decade ago than I am now that we'd see more decentralized manufacturing and more home-grown innovation, but I'm not sure that these were ever realistic expectations.

I realize my comment is way too terse to make sense to anyone other than myself, this should be a blog post!

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#22
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also hold this unpopular opinion : the maker movement has ultimately failed. I am not fully certain why, but think social factors are partly to blame. What I saw (in the UK) was that the new generation of middle-class, hobbyist makers weren't interested in engaging with and learning from the historical, working-class manufacturing sector.

Would you mind expounding upon this comment? Against what goal did it fail to deliver? I think I was more hopeful a decade ago than I am now that we'd see more decentralized manufacturing and more home-grown innovation, but I'm not sure that these were ever realistic expectations.

I think to OPs comment, tinkers at the turn of the century were able to turn curious scientific discoveries into huge consumer product segments. Radio, film, automobiles, etc all basically grew out of hobbyists at home.

It seems like makers in general focus too much on self-reliance and making personalized goodies than actual creation.

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#23
post #19

Semi-related: As an average consumer I'm disappointed that nearly a decade of the "makerspace" has seemingly failed to produce any sort of meaningful Renaissance in small-scale US manufacturing. I've purchased the odd 3D printed or resin cast tchotchke from small operations a few times at this point. But it's still disappointing that if you need professional quality products, you still either need to pay out the nose…

Another problem is that really good CAD software is expensive. I have used FreeCAD. Its instability frustrated me. Not very rewarding to work on a part that needs a moderately complex feature like a loft, only to find out that after adding the loft FC crashes every few minutes so the part is essentially impossible to edit further. SolveSpace is much more stable but it doesn't have those complex features at all. You c…

> You can use Fusion 360 for hobby stuff, but if you're attached to your work (as any creator would be), it's disquieting to have it hosted in a cloud that you're just being given permission to access. You're one corporate decision away from losing your files.

I can export things locally in any format I want from Fusion, is that not the case with certain licenses or something?

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#24
post #10

Semi-related: As an average consumer I'm disappointed that nearly a decade of the "makerspace" has seemingly failed to produce any sort of meaningful Renaissance in small-scale US manufacturing. I've purchased the odd 3D printed or resin cast tchotchke from small operations a few times at this point. But it's still disappointing that if you need professional quality products, you still either need to pay out the nose…

I also hold this unpopular opinion : the maker movement has ultimately failed. I am not fully certain why, but think social factors are partly to blame. What I saw (in the UK) was that the new generation of middle-class, hobbyist makers weren't interested in engaging with and learning from the historical, working-class manufacturing sector.

Probably the same v reason the internet of knowledge failed. Walled gardens, and Soe spam.

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong. There are massive 3D printing farms that are producing consumer products at scale in the united states now, and that is a direct result of the work that the maker community (both here and especially in China) has done on 3D printing.

Sure. But the vast majority of products are not ever going to be 3D printed. Most of the things you are going to touch today are going to be injection-molded. Keyboards, keychains, car parts, cups, computer cases, etc. There's a 3d print shop that sells at my local farmer's market. But they only sell tchotchkes. I am imagining a world where the same size business could also phone cases or mugs or even supply a local…

We're not at farmers markets, because our niches are too focused. One guy I follow on YouTube pretty much only sells tool trays for cannabis products and I only sell replacement brake cable guides for 1980's powersport machines.

We've been at the very beginning of what you're describing for about 3-4 years now. I only started selling by request of the communities I'm part of because none of them knew anyone to print it.

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#26

Semi-related: As an average consumer I'm disappointed that nearly a decade of the "makerspace" has seemingly failed to produce any sort of meaningful Renaissance in small-scale US manufacturing. I've purchased the odd 3D printed or resin cast tchotchke from small operations a few times at this point. But it's still disappointing that if you need professional quality products, you still either need to pay out the nose…

It's there, it's just... small scale. Mass production techniques inherently don't work well for things that aren't mass production.

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#27
post #11

Semi-related: As an average consumer I'm disappointed that nearly a decade of the "makerspace" has seemingly failed to produce any sort of meaningful Renaissance in small-scale US manufacturing. I've purchased the odd 3D printed or resin cast tchotchke from small operations a few times at this point. But it's still disappointing that if you need professional quality products, you still either need to pay out the nose…

It depends on what you mean by a renaissance of small-scale manufacturing. I see CNC and 3D printers much more often now in prosumer and small-business shops. People are making professional quality casts, with some work. Yes, it's effort, but it's going to be effort regardless of if you outsource the work, or learn how to do it the right way yourself. Plastic injection machines can be a few grand on eBay now. A very…

I am specifically thinking of a Christmas bazaar I was just at. You had all of these booths selling beautiful customized phone-cases and earrings and candle-holders and etc. And nearly all of them are starting with Chinese made plastics and putting labor intensive value on top of it.

And there was a single 3d print shop booth that sold glorified paperweights.

It just seemed to me that there is clearly a market failure between these two industries.

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#28
post #10

Semi-related: As an average consumer I'm disappointed that nearly a decade of the "makerspace" has seemingly failed to produce any sort of meaningful Renaissance in small-scale US manufacturing. I've purchased the odd 3D printed or resin cast tchotchke from small operations a few times at this point. But it's still disappointing that if you need professional quality products, you still either need to pay out the nose…

I also hold this unpopular opinion : the maker movement has ultimately failed. I am not fully certain why, but think social factors are partly to blame. What I saw (in the UK) was that the new generation of middle-class, hobbyist makers weren't interested in engaging with and learning from the historical, working-class manufacturing sector.

Sharing your "maker experience" with anyone else quickly leads to liability concerns and insurance costs. Someone can injure themselves on your property, despite all you can do to prevent it, and it can still be your financial responsibility. catastrophically so in some cases.

Given that doorstop the "maker movement" hasn't failed; it just hasn't launched into an actual movement. its still a hobby for individuals.

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#29
I skipped right to the section on CNC machining because that's what I have some expertise in. A couple pieces of feedback:

- In section 2.1.1 there is a note that states "CAM applications are designed to fail safely; that is, if any of the features of the model cannot be reached without plowing through another essential section of the geometry, the problematic region simply won't be machined at all." This is really, really bad advice for someone learning CNC, because it's the kind of statement that may be true 90% of the time but the remaining 10% where it is false can have serious consequences (ruined workpieces, broken tools, crashed machines, injuries etc). Every one of the 6 CAM programs I have used has both intended behaviors and bugs/edge cases that will violate this assumption. A CNC learner should instead be instructed to have a step-by-step verification checklist to determine the correctness and safety of a new program. This includes steps utilizing both the simulation functions within their CAM program and dry running on the machine. In addition to behaviors within CAM, there is a whole additional class of unintended (unsafe) behavior that can emerge once the program is actually run on the machine and will not be caught in CAM simulation. The exact composition of this verification process will vary depending on what you are doing, but the main idea is to never assume your CAM programming will fail safely like this article suggests.

- In regards to Total Indicated Runout in section 2.1.3. The article has a good discussion here, however I would add that the smaller tool you use, the greater effect TIR has on tool longevity and surface finish. As overall tool diameter get smaller, allowable chip load generally decreases. TIR effectively changes the chip load on each tooth as the tool rotates. If TIR is large enough relative to chip load, this imbalance will destroy the tool in short order. Why is this important to a new CNC user? Lots of new CNC operators assume that since smaller tools reduce cutting forces, they can use very small endmills on their benchtop end mills and not worry about rigidity. However, due to the TIR + chipload issue described above, demands on spindle precision actually increase if you want to use smaller end mills. There is a sweet spot where the end mill is cutting, has decent life and does not exert overly high cutting forces, which will depend on the machine and tool holding setup. But this does not necessarily coincide with using the smallest end mill possible.

- In section 2.1.7, jaw chucks (like a drill chuck) should not even be mentioned, except to caution users away from them. The article describes them as if they are just a non-optimal choice, but they are outright dangerous to use for milling. They are not designed to deal with the lateral forces created by end mills. They also are often mounted on tapers that can't deal with those forces either. Please do not reply and tell me you have had success milling with an X-Y table on your drill press. You may have, but you won't be doing it in my shop. It's not safe.

- Section 2.1.8 is overall good info, but misses mentioning what is one of the most important keywords to understanding how CNC machines interface with CAM software: the postprocessor. All G-code is interpreted and comes in many different dialects, with varying degrees of compatibility across CNC controller manufacturers. Which dialect your CAM system outputs is controlled by the postprocessor, which is a build script that can be interchanged to support different CNC controllers. Of special interest to the HN audience is the fact that these postprocessors can be written and (usually) modified, which may be advantageous to support unusual machines or customize your production process. IIRC fusion360 postprocessors are javascript. Professional machine shops without in-house software dev expertise pay big money for custom postprocessors.

If anyone is interested in getting deeper into this subject, I have been curating a list of resources for learning machining on my website here:

https://www.r-c-y.net/posts/machining/

I began compiling these because I was mostly self-taught when I started machining and at the time found it pretty tough to find good learning resources that weren't primarily focused on hobbyist-scale machining. These should provide a good introduction to industrial scale, professional quality machining rather than small scale benchtop milling like this article. However, the fundamentals apply to both, so even if your ambitions are small it's good to learn from the pros.

Re: Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting (2015)

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong. There are massive 3D printing farms that are producing consumer products at scale in the united states now, and that is a direct result of the work that the maker community (both here and especially in China) has done on 3D printing.

Sure. But the vast majority of products are not ever going to be 3D printed. Most of the things you are going to touch today are going to be injection-molded. Keyboards, keychains, car parts, cups, computer cases, etc. There's a 3d print shop that sells at my local farmer's market. But they only sell tchotchkes. I am imagining a world where the same size business could also phone cases or mugs or even supply a local…

Don't think production floor, think tool room. Every production floor has a bunch of machines that are absolutely not very precise, with an extremely precise insert. The use that insert to make a widget. Over and over and over again. But, there has to be a room in the back of the production floor, isolated from all that, where you make the insert. That's where 3d printers do their work- not the production floor. Because at scale, it almost never makes sense to make things with 3d printers (or ultra-precise CNCs, etc).
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