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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#221

Post by throwaway4aday »

frankus wrote: post #109

I'm curious if there is some productivity-improving tech for electricians waiting to be invented. The following will be super North-America-centric, but: Right now you have to fasten a box to the wall structure, cut the wire so that about 8" can make its way into the box, strip the outer insulation and insert it into the box, strip at least some of the individual conductors, and then splice (by twisting and using wir…

Implementing this would cost a lot more and would need uptake from all of the hardware manufacturers plus building code changes. The productivity improving tech you're looking for is called an apprentice though opinions differ on how much time they save/waste.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#222

Post by supertrope »

user-extended wrote: post #25

*without raising salaries.

Where there's a will there a way. In business will is proportional to remuneration. Skilled labor is not cheap and it's even more expensive in high cost of living areas. Commercial jobs pay more than residential. The impact of COVID-19 is driving up labor rates.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#223

Post by StrictDabbler »

idiotsecant wrote: post #196
jxramos wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why's that, is there some guarantee they fail to live up to? Is there something probabilistic to them or something?

GFCIs have a simple and well defined function. What is the current through one lead? What is the current through the other lead? Do they differ by more than x amount? If so, trip. AFCIs are a whole different thing - the plug is trying to predict when arcing is happening somewhere downstream of it and it has very little in the way of 'processing' power to do it, so generally there is a classical filter that is designe…

AFCIs are just The Man trying to stop us running Tesla coils.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#224

Post by turtlebits »

bell-cot wrote: post #168
irq wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability for power companies to deliver on this reliably is decreasing as our society grows increasingly low-trust. This is why you may want to take control of your own destiny and secure your own source of power.

Last I heard (a friend is a retired Electrical Engineer, with solar panels), there is a massive cost & complexity gap between "have solar panels on the roof of house" and "control your own destiny" (meaning you're able to run your house off-grid via solar panels). The former only needs (relatively) simple/stupid/cheap power & control electronics. Mimic the frequency & phase of the incoming AC from the utility, and le…

I’m not sure I agree with this. While off grid integration isn’t seamless, I find that it’s much easier to understand, equipment is plentiful and cheaper than a grid tie system.

Smaller scale off grid systems can also be done with no installation/permitting costs if you set it up as a solar “ups” and put your critical loads on it. (Though I would at least have an electrician setup a critical loads panel and have your off grid inverter power that. )

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#226

Post by quickthrowman »

pjc50 wrote: post #103
quickthrowman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement. If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it and save $2,000? Part of that price is uncertainty due to scheduling/coordinating with the siding contractor and utility. Everything after the meter, including grounding conductors, are premises wiring aka your responsibility. Having your electrical service properly grounded sure beats being electrocuted. I manage electricia…

> If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it UK note: under "Part P" rules, it is significantly harder to legally do your own electrical work. https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/find-an-electrician...

Most jurisdictions in the US allow homeowners to self-perform electrical work. Electrical inspectors tend to be a lot more picky and thorough with homeowner performed work since homeowners are notoriously bad electricians.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#227

Post by nsxwolf »

londons_explore wrote: post #114
anikom15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

They only need to be installed in specific places... But they ought to be installed for the whole house. You do want your refrigerator on one. What when your mom is putting a metal saucepan into the fridge of leftovers, knocks and smashes the lamp inside, and the AC lamp power supply kills her though the metal saucepan? What when a baby puts a fork into an electrical outlet in the living room? What when floodwater co…

A whole house GFCI would ruin all the food in my refrigerator several times a year.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#228

Post by supertrope »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #38
yboris wrote: post #17

Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for…

Your willingness to repeatedly follow a process without deviation puts you into a much smaller group than the general population. Yes, the average person can do it, but many won't. And it will be innocent bystanders or firefighters or whatever that pay the ultimate price, not the sloppy guy or gal that saved a few dollars by doing it themselves. I wish that our building codes and permitting system had provisions for…

For simpler jobs like installing an EVSE you can do the grunt work of dragging cable and hire a pro to wire it to the panel and pull permits.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#229

Post by amluto »

tibbon wrote: post #116
anikom15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

You need a AFCI in most places now. In the 2020 edition of the NEC®, Section 210.12 requires that for dwelling units, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be…

There are other downsides. For example, actually finding a two-pole or AFCI breaker or, worse, a combination AFCI/GFCI breaker is not so easy.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#230

Post by quickthrowman »

londons_explore wrote: post #114
anikom15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

They only need to be installed in specific places... But they ought to be installed for the whole house. You do want your refrigerator on one. What when your mom is putting a metal saucepan into the fridge of leftovers, knocks and smashes the lamp inside, and the AC lamp power supply kills her though the metal saucepan? What when a baby puts a fork into an electrical outlet in the living room? What when floodwater co…

> You do want your refrigerator on one. What when your mom is putting a metal saucepan into the fridge of leftovers, knocks and smashes the lamp inside, and the AC lamp power supply kills her though the metal saucepan?

Your fridge scenario is.. fantasy. What is the path to ground? There isn’t one.. you can hold onto a live phase conductor all day and not get shocked if the circuit isn’t completed.

Refrigerator only needs a GFI if it is within a certain distance of a sink.

> What when a baby puts a fork into an electrical outlet in the living room?

The NEC requires tamper-resistant receptacles in all dwelling units.

Also re: flooding and GFIs, all basement receptacles need GFI protection due to flood risk.

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