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In Lebanon, solar power is booming

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131–140 of 154 posts

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#131
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lebanon is located next middle east and north Africa. It has 10.72% arable land, water being a scarce resource, and dust storms being one of the natural hazards. The average number of days with rain for months between May and September is between 0 and 2. Solar is an obvious choice for that climate.

They are putting solar all over the UK. Today's panels are so efficient that cloudy weather is fine.

[deleted]

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Africans would be overjoyed to have stable electricity and clean water to the extent that Germans have. The problems Europeans complain about are on a much higher level and can't be compared to having 2 to 4 hours blackouts every day for the majority of the year, or to having the water cut off regularly or various other examples of state failure. > but at least the government there can be held accountable by th…

> South Africans would be overjoyed to have stable electricity and clean water to the extent that Germans have. Not disputing that - but I fear that allowing private/venture capital to intervene will further solidify existing discrimination issues in the long term, even if it may show quick improvements short term.

I’m not sure what you mean when you say “discrimination issues”, as there are a plethora of overlapping discrimination issues happening in South Africa.

But I can tell you that the current situation is only making the divide between rich and poor greater. The worse it gets the greater the divide will grow as basic things like water and electricity become more scarce.

It’s not about allowing private/venture capital to intervene. People are going off grid because it’s the only choice. Unless you’re talking about allowing private companies to provide power to the grid? I’m not sure what the solution is there.

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#133
post #13

Basically, Lebanon had 30 years to figure out how to build basic infrastructure like a proper electrical grid and production (from 1990, the end of the civil war to present). Instead, crooks, thieves and fraudsters figured out how to bilk the nation of billions while leaving subpar services in their wake. My parents have had solar thermal collectors for hot water on their roof in Lebanon for 3 decades now... other th…

  > Basically, Lebanon had 30 years to figure out how to build basic infrastructure like a proper electrical grid and production (from 1990, the end of the civil war to present). Instead, crooks, thieves and fraudsters figured out how to bilk the nation of billions while leaving subpar services in their wake.
This is all true but it also did not help matters that Israel perpetually bombed power plants and related infrastructure in the country over the same period of time.

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#134
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but at least they did learn. In Europe they keep adding the A/B/C/D/E/F/G scoring system to more and more things with the excuse - I guess - that people are now already used to it.

On the other hand if you had "8" how would you know if it's good or bad? It is not intuitive, especially if you keep adding more. And the scale needs to be changed regularly anyways because the criteria are not the same, so a 8 now would not even be guaranteed to be a 8 tomorrow. The European system already resets the scales after a while (for instance the new ones don't have a + yet) and it is not just about changin…

On the other hand, today's system you're led the believe that A is good, when in fact A++++ is good and for certain things A is fairly bad.

Further when you change the scales you can't compare old and new. Is my A+ rated fridge better or worse than a new A rated fridge. Is it worth me updating it?

A system of 1 to 5 can scale upwards. Alternatively set A as the best possible score as allowed by the laws of physics.

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#135
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine wasn't even on the power grid when the war began, they took IIRC 2-3 months to sever the ties to Russia and integrate the Ukrainian power grid. The problem, at least for the sorry state of electricity prices, isn't that Ukraine was at war... it was/is that the French did an absurdly large bet on nuclear power while at the same time tying at least 40% of heating to resistive heating, but failed to have a backu…

Which is to be expected when you build a massively centralized, both physical and organisational, power system. And which is my main issue with nuclear power: it isn't distributed, but centralized and heavily dependent on governments and extreme long-term-planning. Which is a recipe for disaster. The chance that Flamaville would be delivered late is about 100%. Reacting to rapid changes like a war (spiking fuel price…

Solar is only the opposite of nuclear if you ignore storage requirements. There is potential for use of distributed battery storage, but we're decades away from being able to build that out economically at scale. Installing some home battery backup or EV reverse charging systems won't be sufficient; we have to be able to keep heavy industry running through multiple days of little sunshine.

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#136
post #78

I hail from a Tier 3 city in India [a]. Due to mismgmt. or exorbitant electricity prices, several folks would end up stealing electricity from the main line. Electricity distribution companies would keep on increasing prices to make up for lost revenue from stealing. On other hand, stealing kept on increasing. In recent years, huge chunk of public have pivoted to installing solar panels for water heater etc. When I w…

> exorbitant electricity prices, Yeah, no. There is no state in India that has exorbitant electricity prices for domestic consumers. Virtually every state discom sets the base tarrif below cost. People steal electricity because they can, not because they can't afford it.

This may be true today. My memory of prices is from early 2000s when electricity distribution was still a mess financially.

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#137
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The maintenance plans weren't bad. "Inspect [x] thoroughly every [y] years": Good. "Take plants offline for repairs immediately if problems on [long list] are seen": Good. "Build a few extra plants because some will be down for maintenance": Good. "Arrange for gas-fired power in case lots of plants are down": Good. IMO what's bad is some people's expectations. One of the countries within the power grid is at war. Som…

Ukraine wasn't even on the power grid when the war began, they took IIRC 2-3 months to sever the ties to Russia and integrate the Ukrainian power grid. The problem, at least for the sorry state of electricity prices, isn't that Ukraine was at war... it was/is that the French did an absurdly large bet on nuclear power while at the same time tying at least 40% of heating to resistive heating, but failed to have a backu…

The planning started in 2005 and physical work started 2017. It finished months ahead of schedule, but Ukraine would have been connected today even if work had finished on schedule.

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#138
post #84

This is one of the less obvious reasons solar will dominate. No grid or government to rely on. Russian gas and foreign wars no longer matter. And as battery technology improves it will be 24x7 independence.

Here in Ukraine we also have a severe energy problem, but I don't know of anyone using solar to fix it. Instead we use...gas generators.

This was what lebanese relied on before solar.

There would be generators owned by mafia type people that would sell electricity to neighborhoods.

Once we ran out of dollar currency to buy gas people resorted to solar

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#139

Solar is lovely and all but the far more concerning thing here is that 30 years on from it's civil war, Lebanon still does not have a functioning government. More and more places seem to be ending up in this state, both in places like Lebanon AND in the West (looking at you Texas, or here in the UK). It's nice that at least some people are finding ways to work around these failures. But let's not pretend that that is…

The civil war never ended. The same factions just moved to politics.

It also doesn’t help when political class is protected by foreign governments (USA & Iran) so change is unlikely also dangerous.

Our problem is that we’re too diverse and fixated on religion. I worry about America if they continue fixating on identity politics with race and genders

Re: In Lebanon, solar power is booming

#140

Solar + cheap storage should be the new default for the entire second/ third world. Basically, you can't rely on your central corrupt government? Well, you don't have to! With starlink the third world will have options for internet too. Now, starlink probably can't serve billions of people, but it can still be an option, especially for rural.

what’s the cheapest storage someone can get these days?

I don't have a good answer today, but IMO it is coming.

The advent of the sodium ion 150 wh/kg (CATL in mass production this year) should drop the price and increase availability without the Lithium supply issue. Also, LFP / LMFP will hit 200+ wh/kg this year in production (CATL as well, and others) ... needs lithium, but don't require cobalt or nickel as I understand it.

The first world smug answer is that the second and third world will tolerate less reliability. They apparently already do, but they gain more control with the panels.

Gravity based storage (flywheels or heck, pulleys) may be good enough for non-first-world expectations as well. Generally it won't work for first world expectations. Flywheels would probably be sufficient.

The market should be huge though, in the billions of people. Again, a smug first world answer is that the "decarbonization" problem needs to be prioritized, so as much solar/wind/storage needs to be focused on the first world grids to get consumer transportation and power generation on BEVs and solar/wind as quickly as possible.

But again I like to think that solar (home panels on roof) + wind (in the sense of a village megawatt turbine in a rural village) + personal BEVs (electric scooter, e-bike) + starlink terminal should be so empowering to a rural second/third world community.

Heck, think about Australia, a "first world country" but basically a bunch of cities and very very rural surroundings. It has all the infrastructure / distance / spreadout issues that America has but on steroids.

Now, I don't live there and don't know the terrain beyond the fact that it is grassland / desert in the middle of the country, and a lot of it. You know what that's perfect for? Solar and Wind. Australia could likely start to economically develop more of its interior without huge infrastructure projects like transmission lines and huge amounts of cell towers and the like: starlink for communications relays, some local 5g towers for distributing the bandwidth to villages, solar for homes, a village wind turbine for more "local grid" power, and that leaves: storage and uh... water.

And roads.

I really do view this as a very empowering opportunity for tribal and indigenous populations which almost always exist in minority political positions in central governments. What is the primary means of denial of opportunity and resources to these political minorities? Infrastructure.

The fact that power and communications can be so effectively decentralized and locally controlled for wind / solar / battery / starlink is a fundamental game changer to these people. Look at our native american populations: the poverty in these communities (if they don't have the casino deal) is striking, and they are far away from centralized infrastructure.

I'm not saying having your own wind/solar/starlink comms will solve all the problems, but it is empowering to a community and individual people that may live there.

The tragedy of the strong Republican character of rural America is that the same thing effectively goes for almost all rural communities: cheaper and better power, cheaper and better communications, improve the appeal of moving urban and suburban workers to more remote rurals and improve their economic quandry of aging populations and population loss. At the same time, increase housing availability and affordability to more people by making the rural areas more accessible.

Wow, that was meandering, but anyway, I think the focus on alternative energy is getting too far towards grid centric just because it is a bit cheaper on cost/kwhr. There should be strong focus on home / community solar/wind/battery storage and development.

And home storage is a key aspect to it. IMO, it is largely solved technologically for the 1-2 days of storage with sodium ion batteries, you just need the scaling. Maybe you have a gas generator for really long periods, which isn't ideal for carbonization, but this is kind of like the hybrid car situation: use smaller batteries to maximize the available total battery supply across as many cars as possible to maximize the daily miles that are all-electric, but still have an ICE for long trips. That way you get 90% electrified miles, 10% for the extreme.

We missed the boat on that in cars. That should have been policy enacted 15-20 years ago to get the ball rolling (five years after the prius and insight), now all the car companies are jumping to pure-BEV (because otherwise the CEO gets fired... see: VW, BMW, etc).

We can still do the same with home storage: handle 70-90% of the load levelling with a 1-2 day battery, and the other 10-30% you use grid power or if that's not available, a gasoline or natural gas or diesel generator or fuel cell or whatever.

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