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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#141

Post by londons_explore »

somehnguy wrote: post #124
londons_explore wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are normally required to update anything an electrician touches or could impact. So if you are having a new socket added in your kitchen, then all the other sockets in the kitchen on the same circuit will need updating, and the breaker for the kitchen. But you probably won't have to have your living room rewired.

Are you certain about that? I’m having a new service entry cable, meter box, and main breaker panel put in next week. By its nature that should impact every single circuit in my house. But my electrician isn’t touching anything besides what I listed above, and I know that there are multiple other things around the house not up to current code.

You may live in a place where the law doesn't require that. Or you may have found an electrician willing to turn a blind eye to that stuff. Or you might be about to get a far larger bill than expected when the electrician 'discovers' that midway through the job, and now isn't legally allowed to put it back as he found it.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#142

Post by tstrimple »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #65
londons_explore wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are normally required to update anything an electrician touches or could impact. So if you are having a new socket added in your kitchen, then all the other sockets in the kitchen on the same circuit will need updating, and the breaker for the kitchen. But you probably won't have to have your living room rewired.

It seems US is way more overregulated when it comes to electricity or building in general.

And every time I see a video online of a dance floor or stadium collapsing or people getting electrocuted by accidentally touching ungrounded electrical devices I'm reminded why. That's not to say those things don't happen here, just at a lower frequency. Safety standards are written in blood after all.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#143

Post by sowbug »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #37
BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

"What on earth for?"

rimshot

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#144

Post by anikom15 »

londons_explore wrote: post #114
anikom15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

They only need to be installed in specific places... But they ought to be installed for the whole house. You do want your refrigerator on one. What when your mom is putting a metal saucepan into the fridge of leftovers, knocks and smashes the lamp inside, and the AC lamp power supply kills her though the metal saucepan? What when a baby puts a fork into an electrical outlet in the living room? What when floodwater co…

My mom doesn’t live with me (the bulb inside the fridge is LED anyway), I don’t have a baby (babies don’t carry metal forks), and I live on the second floor (but the power would be out long before the first floor floods).

I don’t want whole house GFCI.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#145

Post by nemo44x »

signaturefish wrote: post #10
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to upgrade your service entrance, if it's within your means, go to 400A to future proof (EVs, HVAC and hot water heat pumps, induction stove, and other large loads all add up, along with colocated generation of some sort). Depending on your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and utility, they may require a licensed electrician to replace the raceway or similar entrance to the meter. 200A is satisfactory…

I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certa…

A friend of mine has 400A of service in the UK in the countryside as it's an old farmhouse and is pretty large even by USA standards.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#146

Post by bluGill »

mfer wrote: post #115
cinntaile wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get what frozen pipes has to do with electrifying the home?

There is a push to move to electric heat generation in homes in some areas. If electricity goes out you loose heat. In many areas you can have weeks (even months) where the temperature is below freezing. Loose heat to your home and your pipes can freeze. When this happens they burst causing damage to the home.

There are very few houses that have a heating system that works without electric. There are blowers/fans that turn on when when the furnace turns on. Most of the time the thermostat itself needs mains power to function (the thermostat gets power from the furnace, but ultimate it comes from the mains feed). It isn't even possible to have a modern 90+ efficiency furnace without mains as the exhaust is not hot enough to let convection take care of the exhaust.

A gas furnace doesn't need much power though. A heat pump needs a lot of power, and resistance heating is worse.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#147

Post by anikom15 »

tibbon wrote: post #116
anikom15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

You need a AFCI in most places now. In the 2020 edition of the NEC®, Section 210.12 requires that for dwelling units, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be…

Don’t even get me started on AFCIs. At least the behavior of GFCIs is well-defined.

The AFCI thing is a money grab.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#148

Post by frankus »

frankus wrote: post #109

I'm curious if there is some productivity-improving tech for electricians waiting to be invented. The following will be super North-America-centric, but: Right now you have to fasten a box to the wall structure, cut the wire so that about 8" can make its way into the box, strip the outer insulation and insert it into the box, strip at least some of the individual conductors, and then splice (by twisting and using wir…

Or even something as simple as studs that come pre-drilled at outlet and switch height (they already come pre-cut to slightly less than 8 feet to be the right height when installed between top and bottom plates).

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#149

Post by bityard »

londons_explore wrote: post #114
anikom15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

They only need to be installed in specific places... But they ought to be installed for the whole house. You do want your refrigerator on one. What when your mom is putting a metal saucepan into the fridge of leftovers, knocks and smashes the lamp inside, and the AC lamp power supply kills her though the metal saucepan? What when a baby puts a fork into an electrical outlet in the living room? What when floodwater co…

Let know when GFCIs and AFCIs are robust enough against spurious tripping and I will readily install them everywhere.

GFCIs are notorious for tripping on certain appliances like refrigerators and freezers, and can trip due to RFI from other devices in the house.

AFCIs do not like anything with a brushed motor, especially power tools and sufficiently large vacuums.

I have personally experienced all of these just in the last couple years.

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