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Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

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Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#231

Post by nickthegreek »

nunez wrote: post #230

This is a gimmick. Mercedes is claiming liability for the car because the feature only works in extremely limited set of circumstances (traffic jam, cruising at less than 39 mi/hr). Tesla's Autopilot has long been able to do this in this domain, and it does it well; they just don't claim liability yet because $reasons (I'm sure they're gearing up for it with Tesla Insurance). As we see in the announcement, Drive Pilo…

But it’s not just a gimmick, as you point out, they are claiming liability for accidents in those limited circumstances. If that’s a gimmick, then we need more gimmicks.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#232

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

akmarinov wrote: post #181
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh Germany. Cannabis legalization and everything else: "We need to study the potential effects for 20 years to be absolutely sure it's safe." Allowing Mercedes let cars drive 130km/h on their own: "Seems about fine, signed." Not complaining about the lack of bureaucracy in this case but it is crazy how fast they got the initial law change passed and now they've even updated the speed to 130, even though no car is cap…

It's almost like the automotive industry has a huge influence over legislation

There is(was?) a phrase here: „Wenn Volkswagen hustet, geht es Niedersachsen nicht gut.“ meaning If VW is coughing (the whole of) Niedersachsen suffers.

Apparently said by former chancellor Gerhard Schröder.

https://gutezitate.com/zitat/152677

Also https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article167476785/Ohne-Volkswa... (use translation services, damn it!)

Furthermore https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/vw-gesetz-faq-101.html (see above)

I guess similar applies to Mercedes, BMW in their respective states.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#233

Post by kube-system »

ultrablack wrote: post #218
kube-system wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the confidence level. The required level of supervision. Other cars, like Teslas, can “do” this task, but not with enough certainty that they are safe to do it while not being actively monitored by a driver.

Teslas did this years ago. The standard autopilot could do this, at speeds up to 100miles/hour. Later, they add the nag. 2018 I think.

Yes, at SAE J3016 level 2.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#235

Post by flohofwoe »

TekMol wrote: post #201
flohofwoe wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These aren't exactly giant shifts though, just incremental progress. Maybe with the exception of cars vs horses, but this shift took at least half a century and two disruptive world wars happened in that time. For the other things, the enabling technologies were microchips and the internet, and those also took their time to grow.

If the web was not a giant shift, then I don't know what is. If mobile was not a giant shift, then I don't know what is. The web created a searchable, worldwide instant knowledge base in which mankind shares what it knows. Mobile makes everyone connected to everybody else, where ever they are. For all of these examples, the time going from "most people are aware of it" to "most people use it" was less than 20 years.…

These were mostly 'predictable' consequences of miniaturization in electronics and connecting computers into networks which had been happening since the late 1940s and the 1960s. And those idea didn't come out of nowhere either, science fiction invented most of those concepts long before they could be technically realised (see Star Trek's communicators).

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#236

Post by vagrantJin »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #137
Karellen wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the level they're selling still requires that the driver be able to resume control when notified. So the "the car notified the driver to take over, disengaged, and shortly following that the driver crashed the car" narrative is still possible, even when the "shortly following that" might actually be "0.1s later". Sorry, our tech wasn't engaged at the time, you're actually the one at fault here. Yes, the standard…

Such a narrative would be immediately called out. I really don't think that kind of trickery is something to worry about. > things can change dramatically in a few seconds at highway speeds In the immediate term, "brake enough not to hit things" is a very good default response and a computer should be better than a human at doing so.

> Such a narrative would be immediately called out.

Really?

Tesla has done exactly that - refusing liability because autopilot returned control to the driver in less than a second before the crash.[0]

No one called them out on it. There was a lot of hand wringing and feigned outrage but Musk's ass needs to be kissed and it ain't gonna kiss itself.

[0](https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2022/05/18/nhtsa...)

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#237

Post by INTPenis »

jupp0r wrote: post #229
INTPenis wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work with technology, you don't trust technology. Like IBM said back in the 70s; A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision. Well you're letting it make decisions for you in a 2 ton murder weapon.

I trust technology at this point much more than the average driver (in normal conditions)

Bottom line is that no system is perfect.

I feel less safe knowing there will be humans on the roads letting go of their steering wheels and handing over control to an imperfect system.

Some day I'm sure we'll have automated traffic, but the road there will be lined with bodies.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#238

Post by aidenn0 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #203

I drive a lot and I don't know if I'm crazy or not but instead of a car which can "mostly self drive but which I must watch at all times for something could wrong", I want instead a car that watches me while I drive and which prevents me from making most dangerous things. Rephrasing it: I don't want to be the one preventing the car from doing stupid things. I want the car to be preventing me from doing stupid things.…

For longer drives, I can shake highway hypnosis by looking anywhere but straight ahead. Something that I could "turn on" when in light traffic and good conditions would mean I could do this more easily.

As far as "the car preventing me from doing stupid things" goes it's good in theory, but requires an excellent implementation to not suck. When driving in traffic it's basically 100% of the time that my car beeps at me when I put my turn signal on, because I'm either passing or waiting for a car to pass me when I signal. I would turn it off, but I can't do so without also disabling the RTCA which is a great feature.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#239

Post by steelframe »

nunez wrote: post #230

This is a gimmick. Mercedes is claiming liability for the car because the feature only works in extremely limited set of circumstances (traffic jam, cruising at less than 39 mi/hr). Tesla's Autopilot has long been able to do this in this domain, and it does it well; they just don't claim liability yet because $reasons (I'm sure they're gearing up for it with Tesla Insurance). As we see in the announcement, Drive Pilo…

> This is a gimmick.

Assuming liability for malfunction is the stellar opposite of "gimmick." It's an actual SLA on a GA feature rather than pre-alpha toy tech that a certain despicable company that won't be named hoists on all public roadway users in the vicinity of their garbage vehicles.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#240

Post by ZainRiz »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #133
flakeoil wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case, then I think Mercedes chose the best option. It's when doing long drives on highways it's really useful to be able to read a book, work, play a board game with the passengers, talking in a focused way, nap etc. It's most likely also much easier to make a car drive autonomously on highways versus on smaller roads, city roads, dirt roads etc.

It's not safe to nap, but you can do the rest of that. They're promising 10 seconds of warning when the car wants you to take over.

I wonder how much of those 10 seconds would the car spend trying to notify the driver.

"Warning, take the wheel! Death imminent" takes a good 6 seconds to say :P

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