We need a lot more electricians • Hacker News Board

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#81

Post by brodouevencode » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

planetafro wrote: post #57

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

I feel like some of this should be "grand-fathered" in. Perhaps you were a victim of an upsell. Any electricians that can verify? For example, I needed a new fence. I got a few quotes and most were DRASTICALLY high priced as they wanted to move my fence to comply with current code. An older, more experienced worker had no problems with permits and said I was grand-fathered in because it was already existing. I even s…

I think there's some of this in there too. Out-of-code is grandfathered in unless you're touching that part of the system in most places.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#82

Post by mfer » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #31

mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

There is mooooore than enough spare grid capacity to deliver the electricity to electrify homes. We size the grid for peak capacity, not for average capacity, which means that there's a very low overall usage amount. And the big drivers of additional electricity, heating and transportation, are easily shiftable to non-peak times. And as we have smarter devices, and more time of use billing, load shifting will be easy…

> There is mooooore than enough spare grid capacity to deliver the electricity to electrify homes.

I'm going to disagree with this for three reasons.

1) We have places that have brown outs today. The grid isn't able to deliver. In other areas people have setups where power companies can cut (for periods of time) power to their air conditioner and that is used. There have been other areas where cables have run into issues with so much electricity going over it. The grid today runs into problems with the existing demands on it.

2) I've talked with people in some locales that only have 60A drops to their home. The local home and their local grid needs to be updated before everything can go electric.

3) When you read articles that say the grid can handle it they cover how the grid needs to be updated to handle all the things being electrified. So, they say the grid we have today can't cover it. Here's an example [1]. If it could handle it now there wouldn't be a need to it to be updated.

[1] https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/can-the-nations...

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#83

Post by UI_at_80x24 » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

mankyd wrote: post #13

Siecje wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment implies that you could hook up a ordinary electric range but not an induction range. I thought induction used slightly less energy. Or is it that it uses more energy for a shorter time so the net is less but the peak is higher? I assume I could replace my electric stove with a stove with induction "burners".

I believe the answer is that induction is more efficient at getting heat into your food. With electric, it heats up a coil that heats up your pan (and the air around it) that heats your food. With induction, it skips the coil and simply heats the pan. The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food. It also means the work surface tends to cool quickly (or neve…

>The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food.

This is not correct. Any ferric-metal pan/pot will work. If a magnet can stick to your pot it will work.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#84

Post by micromacrofoot » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

newZWhoDis wrote: post #37

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

Because without a common language for what color wires carry load a simple oversight can be fatal.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#85

Post by brodouevencode » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

zardo wrote: post #80

brodouevencode wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live? In a lot of municipalities any out-of-code work can remain unless they are actively touching that part of the system. For instance, if you had ungrounded outlets in your house, but were just getting a drop for a ceiling fan you wouldn't have to install grounds as part of that work. So they must have been having to touch all those components anyway.

> So they must have been having to touch all those components anyway. Or they conveniently misunderstood the regulatory requirements.

Just trying to give benefit of the doubt. I suspect this was a tack-on.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#86

Post by ilyt » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

quickthrowman wrote: post #53

nsporillo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I got the exterior siding of my home replaced, we also wanted to have our electrical meter box replaced because it was falling off the side of the house. The work we originally thought was needed was just a new meter box. Turned out we needed a new wire run from the meter all the way to our water line, a new pipe for the underground wiring, two additional grounding wires. The utility said it wasnt their problem…

> Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement. If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it and save $2,000? Part of that price is uncertainty due to scheduling/coordinating with the siding contractor and utility. Everything after the meter, including grounding conductors, are premises wiring aka your responsibility. Having your electrical service properly grounded sure beats being electrocuted. I manage electricia…

Needing the knowledge to do the "right" steps doesn't mean the steps stop being simple, it just means it's "simple but easy to fuck up".

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#87

Post by nsporillo » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

quickthrowman wrote: post #53

nsporillo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I got the exterior siding of my home replaced, we also wanted to have our electrical meter box replaced because it was falling off the side of the house. The work we originally thought was needed was just a new meter box. Turned out we needed a new wire run from the meter all the way to our water line, a new pipe for the underground wiring, two additional grounding wires. The utility said it wasnt their problem…

> Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement. If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it and save $2,000? Part of that price is uncertainty due to scheduling/coordinating with the siding contractor and utility. Everything after the meter, including grounding conductors, are premises wiring aka your responsibility. Having your electrical service properly grounded sure beats being electrocuted. I manage electricia…

The work was complete within 4 hours, coordination was easy with the siding contractors as I managed it. Called them up and they were here in 20 minutes to put the J-Block in right after the electrical guys removed the old meter box.

Getting the work done properly was important to me. After the replacement, the random occasional 2-3 second power outages went away and it looks great.

My point was mostly to concur with parent that often you do incur unexpected work when updating legacy electrical, and that adds a bit of cost. To a homeowner, a box swap seems simple but can wind up costing thousands more than you expect.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#88

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

brodouevencode wrote: post #76

quickthrowman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement. If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it and save $2,000? Part of that price is uncertainty due to scheduling/coordinating with the siding contractor and utility. Everything after the meter, including grounding conductors, are premises wiring aka your responsibility. Having your electrical service properly grounded sure beats being electrocuted. I manage electricia…

It's not simple, and most electricians hate doing it unless it's a fresh install because power companies can be a pain to deal with sometimes.

[deleted]

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#89

Post by treeman79 » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

malfist wrote: post #70

vehemenz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article does a disservice to its thesis by focusing on California. Half the country lives in places where subzero temperatures are an issue. Not to mention, the rest of the country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable, let alone the disposable wealth to upgrade their homes. Electric cars are still a long way from viability in most places, though it may not seem that way in California.

> country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable California somehow gets more sunlight than the rest of the US? If I recall for physics, the amount of light depends on the latitude, not what state you're in.

There’s a big difference between people trying to survive 40° weather and 0° weather when the grid has problems.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#90

Post by bluGill » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

quickthrowman wrote: post #53

nsporillo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I got the exterior siding of my home replaced, we also wanted to have our electrical meter box replaced because it was falling off the side of the house. The work we originally thought was needed was just a new meter box. Turned out we needed a new wire run from the meter all the way to our water line, a new pipe for the underground wiring, two additional grounding wires. The utility said it wasnt their problem…

> Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement. If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it and save $2,000? Part of that price is uncertainty due to scheduling/coordinating with the siding contractor and utility. Everything after the meter, including grounding conductors, are premises wiring aka your responsibility. Having your electrical service properly grounded sure beats being electrocuted. I manage electricia…

Because while it is simple, the power is out while I do it. When it is just a single circuit no problem, but if I'm missing one part that means several more hours while I track it down (home depot might or might not have it). A real electrician will have the parts on the van, or at least know where to get the missing one. Not to mention there is probably power to the box, while I can work on live circuits I prefer not to. (or if there is no power, that means there is no power for days because I work on weekends, then the inspector comes on Monday, and only after that does the power company reconnect).

There are some jobs that I can do, but I hire someone else to do anyway.