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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#71

Post by epistasis »

boringg wrote: post #49
epistasis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is mooooore than enough spare grid capacity to deliver the electricity to electrify homes. We size the grid for peak capacity, not for average capacity, which means that there's a very low overall usage amount. And the big drivers of additional electricity, heating and transportation, are easily shiftable to non-peak times. And as we have smarter devices, and more time of use billing, load shifting will be easy…

Not at all. Grid is not ready for this it need significant capital upgrades. Yes its designed for peak load but the load profile is changing significantly. And no you absolutely cant just load shift away heating and transportation of residential homes. That isn't cost free and we don't even have the projects in place to manage that yet.

Transportation is literally already battery, it is trivial to load shift charging, and in fact standard practice for anybody with electric transportation already!

Heating is similarly trivial to load shift; heat or cool a little extra before the peak, stop during the peak, and then pick up afterwards. This goes for both space and water heating.

Do you have any evidence about what upgrades are needed? I have a feeling that since you are so wrong about load shifting, that your intuitions about the grid may not be completely ok mark either. The grid upgrades I know about are for long distance transmission, not anything for distribution at the residential level, as we are discussing here.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#72

Post by greedo »

mankyd wrote: post #13
Siecje wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment implies that you could hook up a ordinary electric range but not an induction range. I thought induction used slightly less energy. Or is it that it uses more energy for a shorter time so the net is less but the peak is higher? I assume I could replace my electric stove with a stove with induction "burners".

I believe the answer is that induction is more efficient at getting heat into your food. With electric, it heats up a coil that heats up your pan (and the air around it) that heats your food. With induction, it skips the coil and simply heats the pan. The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food. It also means the work surface tends to cool quickly (or neve…

Induction compatible cookware doesn't have a heating coil. They just need ferrous metal in them. They can be clad in aluminum, with a ferrous core etc. A cast iron pan works fine, and most stainless steel cookware is fine. It's just the cheap teflon stuff that's out of luck.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#73

Post by whitej125 »

yboris wrote: post #17

Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for…

Did you have to break a seal on the meter to get to the meter disconnect? If so, what are the implications of that?

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#74

Post by prpl »

londons_explore wrote: post #43
pyb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most countries, I don't think you're required to update your home every time the electrical code gets a change. However, many electricians will try to sell you on this unnecessary work.

You are normally required to update anything an electrician touches or could impact. So if you are having a new socket added in your kitchen, then all the other sockets in the kitchen on the same circuit will need updating, and the breaker for the kitchen. But you probably won't have to have your living room rewired.

might be easier to add a new circuit

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#75

Post by londons_explore »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

> likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code.

It frustrates me that every year quite a lot of people are killed due to old houses not having whole-building GFCI's.

A GFCI costs only $20 and can be installed inside 10 minutes. So it seems crazy to be letting people die...

Yet typically electrical regs require that if an electrician installs a GFCI, they bring the whole house up to modern standards. Suddenly the $20+10 minute job has turned into a $15k and 3 weeks complete rewire. So most people don't have a key safety device added. And still every year people die from not having one.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#76

Post by brodouevencode »

quickthrowman wrote: post #53
nsporillo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I got the exterior siding of my home replaced, we also wanted to have our electrical meter box replaced because it was falling off the side of the house. The work we originally thought was needed was just a new meter box. Turned out we needed a new wire run from the meter all the way to our water line, a new pipe for the underground wiring, two additional grounding wires. The utility said it wasnt their problem…

> Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement. If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it and save $2,000? Part of that price is uncertainty due to scheduling/coordinating with the siding contractor and utility. Everything after the meter, including grounding conductors, are premises wiring aka your responsibility. Having your electrical service properly grounded sure beats being electrocuted. I manage electricia…

It's not simple, and most electricians hate doing it unless it's a fresh install because power companies can be a pain to deal with sometimes.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#77

Post by treeman79 »

irq wrote: post #64
SoftTalker wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we will need more electrical generation. I have zero interst in solar panels on my house. I don't live in an area where they would be particularly useful; moreover, I don't want to own them, or to be responsible for maintaining them; I don't want large batteries in my house, or to be responsible for maintaining those. I don't want transfer switches or the responsibility of maintaining those. I want to pay the ele…

The ability for power companies to deliver on this reliably is decreasing as our society grows increasingly low-trust. This is why you may want to take control of your own destiny and secure your own source of power.

It’s insane radicals that try and shut everything down that are causing people to have to become more self-reliant.

Most people I know have trouble remembering to change the oil in their car. Being in charge of electrical generation and giant batteries is not a good idea for many.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#78

Post by mmmBacon »

I think it’s more than just electricians that we need. We need additional training for electricians so they understand how some of the newer technologies work. I bought a high end LED light fixture that had a more modern dimmer that ensures the LEDs won’t flicker when dimmed. The dimmer wiring was completely different but well defined and standardized. I had a hard time finding an electrician that understood how to wire the fixture.

I drew a schematic for them and I found out of 5 electricians only 1 could read the schematic.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#79

Post by encoderer »

It sounds like it was just a COVID-related delay during the height of the pandemic.

I also own a home in Berkeley and had no trouble getting 2 quotes for a panel replacement, and work started less than a week after the first phone call. It cost $12k for the new 200 amp panel and 4 new outlets.

Now, landscape contractors, that’s been a harder nut to crack.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#80

Post by zardo »

brodouevencode wrote: post #68
BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Where do you live? In a lot of municipalities any out-of-code work can remain unless they are actively touching that part of the system. For instance, if you had ungrounded outlets in your house, but were just getting a drop for a ceiling fan you wouldn't have to install grounds as part of that work. So they must have been having to touch all those components anyway.

> So they must have been having to touch all those components anyway.

Or they conveniently misunderstood the regulatory requirements.

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