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We need a lot more electricians

canarymedia.com

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#51

Post by kuschku »

throwawayacc3 wrote: post #29
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd never heard of a 400 A service until just this discussion (it's common to have 100 A - 200 A), but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power: UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W Edit: I am wrong in my understanding of US power distribution. It's 200 A per leg, which the US has two of. But it seems like the UK may or may not have 380 3 Phase, so the n…

Voltage to residential main electrical service panels in the United States is 240V. Major appliances run on 240V circuits. So when you install a 400A panel in the US, it's 400A*240V which is 96,000W.

And service in EU is 380V, so the relationship between the numbers remains similar.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#53

Post by quickthrowman »

nsporillo wrote: post #35
BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

When I got the exterior siding of my home replaced, we also wanted to have our electrical meter box replaced because it was falling off the side of the house. The work we originally thought was needed was just a new meter box. Turned out we needed a new wire run from the meter all the way to our water line, a new pipe for the underground wiring, two additional grounding wires. The utility said it wasnt their problem…

> Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement.

If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it and save $2,000? Part of that price is uncertainty due to scheduling/coordinating with the siding contractor and utility.

Everything after the meter, including grounding conductors, are premises wiring aka your responsibility.

Having your electrical service properly grounded sure beats being electrocuted.

I manage electricians, and my jobs get charged $110/hr for a journeyman in a service van.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#54

Post by epistasis »

vehemenz wrote: post #39
mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

I think the article does a disservice to its thesis by focusing on California. Half the country lives in places where subzero temperatures are an issue. Not to mention, the rest of the country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable, let alone the disposable wealth to upgrade their homes. Electric cars are still a long way from viability in most places, though it may not seem that way in California.

Nearly every state in the us has very viable solar. The blockers are not economic, but regulatory from the utility and utility commission side.

There are small solar arrays all over farms in Minnesota, for example.

Solar is super cheap, and only getting cheaper. Cheap enough that one can start to size your array for the seasonal minimum. And as storage gets super cheap this decade, solar plus storage are a "baseload" combo.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#55

Post by mech987 »

signaturefish wrote: post #10
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to upgrade your service entrance, if it's within your means, go to 400A to future proof (EVs, HVAC and hot water heat pumps, induction stove, and other large loads all add up, along with colocated generation of some sort). Depending on your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and utility, they may require a licensed electrician to replace the raceway or similar entrance to the meter. 200A is satisfactory…

I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certa…

UK homes run on 230 volts, so each amp is worth double what US amps are worth (running on 115 volts in the US) edit: 115 volts per leg, and US has 2 legs, so it comes out in the wash, surprisingly. UK homes have tiny little service amps!

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#56

Post by londons_explore »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #37
BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

Electrical specs are very strict.

They aren't just about electrical safety directly, but also about not potentially confusing people in the future.

If the cable was black, then someone may not have known that it was an earth cable, and might have cut it, which would leave your electrical installation unsafe.

Thats the reasoning why using the wrong color for a wire can make it illegal.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#57

Post by planetafro »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

I feel like some of this should be "grand-fathered" in. Perhaps you were a victim of an upsell. Any electricians that can verify?

For example, I needed a new fence. I got a few quotes and most were DRASTICALLY high priced as they wanted to move my fence to comply with current code. An older, more experienced worker had no problems with permits and said I was grand-fathered in because it was already existing. I even self-checked with the city. He was right.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#58

Post by bombcar »

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #4
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to upgrade your service entrance, if it's within your means, go to 400A to future proof (EVs, HVAC and hot water heat pumps, induction stove, and other large loads all add up, along with colocated generation of some sort). Depending on your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and utility, they may require a licensed electrician to replace the raceway or similar entrance to the meter. 200A is satisfactory…

This is double-great advice. It's completely obvious once mentioned but not something that may have occurred of the top of ones head. Thank-you for posting.

It's strange because 400a service will probably NOT ever be needed, but the cost difference from 100-200 and 100-400 is basically nothing.

You can also get a separate meter installed instead or alongside, this can be useful it the property could be dual purpose (think: duplex, house + machine shop, etc). This can increase costs because of double baseline but it can also reduce costs because of double "low tier" - depends on the market.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#59

Post by [deleted] »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #18
signaturefish wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certa…

I'd never heard of a 400 A service until just this discussion (it's common to have 100 A - 200 A), but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power: UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W Edit: I am wrong in my understanding of US power distribution. It's 200 A per leg, which the US has two of. But it seems like the UK may or may not have 380 3 Phase, so the n…

[deleted]

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#60

Post by mnw21cam »

mankyd wrote: post #13
Siecje wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment implies that you could hook up a ordinary electric range but not an induction range. I thought induction used slightly less energy. Or is it that it uses more energy for a shorter time so the net is less but the peak is higher? I assume I could replace my electric stove with a stove with induction "burners".

I believe the answer is that induction is more efficient at getting heat into your food. With electric, it heats up a coil that heats up your pan (and the air around it) that heats your food. With induction, it skips the coil and simply heats the pan. The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food. It also means the work surface tends to cool quickly (or neve…

The pan doesn't have a heating coil in it - it's just a solid slab of metal. However, that acts like a single turn of wire in a "coil" shorted out.
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