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We need a lot more electricians

canarymedia.com

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#11

Post by BitwiseFool »

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are supposed to be cables sheathed in green. The electrician also had to disconnect all of the wires from the circuit breaker in order to replace a plastic joint and replace it with a galvanized one.

I understand that these regulations exist in the name of safety, just be aware that any electrical updates to your home will likely involve a lot more work than you initially think. Depending on what you are getting done, the inspector may need to recheck your entire home. And, you're probably going to scoff at a good number of the required changes.

Context Edit: I'm located in Texas, and I ultimately had to have the electrical panel replaced entirely because there was a safety recall associated with it. Even after the replacement was complete the electrician had to come back and redo the wiring connections because the inspector said the PVC joint at the top of the box had to be metal instead.

When I first saw the estimate I made sure to shop around and to get multiple quotes in order to make sure I wasn't being taken advantage of. Thankfully, there were a few things I was able to remain grandfathered in for.

Update: I now know that "fuse box" is not a synonym for "circuit breaker".

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#12

Post by powera »

The critical path of "install more solar panels" is not at all gated by the cost of solar panels these days.

It is the electrical work (both within in the home, and "interconnect") that is the expensive bottleneck.

(( also batteries are also a bottleneck. but a different one. ))

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#13

Post by mankyd »

Siecje wrote: post #7
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the tr…

Your comment implies that you could hook up a ordinary electric range but not an induction range. I thought induction used slightly less energy. Or is it that it uses more energy for a shorter time so the net is less but the peak is higher? I assume I could replace my electric stove with a stove with induction "burners".

I believe the answer is that induction is more efficient at getting heat into your food.

With electric, it heats up a coil that heats up your pan (and the air around it) that heats your food.

With induction, it skips the coil and simply heats the pan. The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food.

It also means the work surface tends to cool quickly (or never get hot in the first place), making it safer.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#14

Post by danans »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the tr…

> my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range

She's right. Induction has the speed and response of a gas cooktop with the precision a resistance electric cooktop.

> and an electric water heater.

Make sure it's a heat pump water heater if efficiency and operating cost matter to you.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#15

Post by mfer »

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues.

1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar.

2) Electricity generation. We need a lot more.

3) Dealing with problems in regions. Like power outages in areas that deal with lots of snow and freezing. How do people have heat to survive? How do things work so that we don't have destruction to homes from frozen pipes? Stuff like that.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#16

Post by thehappypm »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the tr…

Electric water heaters don’t need to draw a ton of amps. 4500 Watt, 240V 50 gallon ones are common, which is under 20 amps. Induction stoves peak at twice that.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#17

Post by yboris »

Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for applying Noalox, everything is just routine - strip a bit of the wire, screw it into circuit breaker, pop it in. Make sure the panel is grounded to outside (as before), and it's done. Feels like a very easy task for most people - provided that the old wiring didn't have errors.

Happy to hear feedback / thoughts on this.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#18

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

signaturefish wrote: post #10
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to upgrade your service entrance, if it's within your means, go to 400A to future proof (EVs, HVAC and hot water heat pumps, induction stove, and other large loads all add up, along with colocated generation of some sort). Depending on your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and utility, they may require a licensed electrician to replace the raceway or similar entrance to the meter. 200A is satisfactory…

I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certa…

I'd never heard of a 400 A service until just this discussion (it's common to have 100 A - 200 A), but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power:

UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W

US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W

Edit: I am wrong in my understanding of US power distribution. It's 200 A per leg, which the US has two of. But it seems like the UK may or may not have 380 3 Phase, so the numbers are weird there too. Wrong all around!

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#19

Post by russdill »

Siecje wrote: post #7
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the tr…

Your comment implies that you could hook up a ordinary electric range but not an induction range. I thought induction used slightly less energy. Or is it that it uses more energy for a shorter time so the net is less but the peak is higher? I assume I could replace my electric stove with a stove with induction "burners".

Induction ranges are more efficient, so to heat at the same rate as an ordinary electric range, use less energy. But many people want an induction range that is more powerful than a typical electric range.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#20

Post by londons_explore »

londons_explore wrote: post #5
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the tr…

There are a lot of laws and regulations about electrical installations. In many regions, doing it legally requires lots of courses and certificates. When you have invested all the time and money into getting said certificates, which is sometimes multiple years full time, you typically want to become a full time electrician to pay back the time+money investment. That means that 'I just do electrics on the side' is bec…

Obviously in most parts of the world, there is no electrical police who will raid your home and look for evidence of wiring done without the correct certifications.

Therefore, lots of people DIY stuff illegally...

If you choose this route, understand that:

* The main cause of injury/death caused by electrics is fires. Fires are normally caused by improper fuses (a fuse/breaker should always be the lowest rating of any device/cable/connector downstream of it, unless that device has its own fuse), or badly made joints. Do joints properly with wago blocks or by tightening screw terminals very tight.

* The 'obvious' risk from electrics of electrocution is reduced to almost zero by installing a whole-house RCD/GFCI device. I wouldn't want to live in a house without one. And turn the power off before doing electrical work.

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