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Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

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Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#171

Post by sneak »

ricardobayes wrote: post #162
sneak wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world with Uber is much better than the world we had before Uber.

Much like airbnb, if it was true to its original mission, it would work well, aka people looking to earn some side cash. But if you are working a low-paid driver "0-hour" contract job without health insurance and a self-funded minimum cover insurance and no PTO, sick days or benefits, that kind of sucks.

Nobody is forced to drive for Uber. The only people who do, do so because they believe it is better for them than their other options.

Therefore, if you took uber away, they would be worse off, in their own estimation.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#172

Post by kuschku »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #123
oblio wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need smart roads more than smart cars. Then this is close to impossible :-) The existing road infrastucture maintenance burden is already crushing financially, imagine if we add smart roads to it.

I'm imagining it going up 2%. What's your imagination?

If it doesn't go down 30% or more, most places will go bankrupt. Suburbs cost more in road maintenance than their entire taxes can return to the city.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#173

Post by kwhitefoot »

Animats wrote: post #76
metaphor wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this supposed distinction actually meaningful? I don't know...color me unconvinced. When I interpret "being constantly ready to immediately take over" language, it's unambiguous that I need to maintain full situational awareness as if I were driving the vehicle. Physically and mentally transitioning from partial to full situational awareness obviously takes some time, and yet from the graphic in the SAE link, the…

There are studies on this, but most of them are paywalled.[1] The key value issue is "takeover time", where a level 3 system asks the driver to take over. Values studied are in the 5 to 7 second range. This is marginal. Volvo was trying for a level 3 system where, if the driver did nothing, the vehicle ended up safely stopped, preferably out of traffic. That's the gold standard for level 3. "Under German law, to be a…

Human back online in three seconds is really not much different from instantaneous. Certainly not reasonable to read a book with both hands on the book and not on the steering wheel.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#175

Post by frozenport »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #133
flakeoil wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case, then I think Mercedes chose the best option. It's when doing long drives on highways it's really useful to be able to read a book, work, play a board game with the passengers, talking in a focused way, nap etc. It's most likely also much easier to make a car drive autonomously on highways versus on smaller roads, city roads, dirt roads etc.

It's not safe to nap, but you can do the rest of that. They're promising 10 seconds of warning when the car wants you to take over.

Which is roughly 250 meters of car travel time...

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#176

Post by wnkrshm »

foepys wrote: post #37
kortilla wrote: post #3

> According to the SAE levels of driving automation, a Level 3-capable vehicle can take over certain driving tasks, but a driver is still required to be present and ready to take control of the car at all times when prompted to intervene. The first part of the article mentions the driver being able to take a meeting or watch a movie. That’s complete horseshit if they need to be ready to take control of the car at all…

In Germany (where this system is already available) Mercedes takes liability and the system gives the driver a 10 second advanced warning before they have to take over. It's also only available on certain stretches of the Autobahn. If the system allows you to enable it, you can use it. The German law allows autonomous driving up to 130 km/h although Mercedes currently only allows their system to work up to 60 km/h.

So it is only usable in congested Autobahn traffic to begin with - it's the minimum speed you're allowed to drive on a clear road.

Mean speed is somewhere at ~110km/h (and you're on the slower end in my experience if you go 110 km/h).

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#177

Post by dx034 »

_the_inflator wrote: post #115
stillworks wrote: post #110

The article doesn’t mention the cutoff speed for L3 though. I think in Germany it is limited to 60km/h or 40mi/h. Also, only certified in Nevada currently (but California to follow soon). And seems like available only in S class or EQS class. Basically, for now benefits chauffeurs of expensive limo companies ferrying customers along the Las Vegas strip (admittedly an over simplification for the purpose of humour)

This has changed. Starting 2023 130km/h. Source: https://www.heise.de/news/Hochautomatisiertes-Fahren-bis-130...

It's legally possible but no car uses it. Mercedes might be the first but they're still limiting at lower speeds.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#178

Post by dx034 »

micwag wrote: post #136
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies will offer this only if the downside risk is bearable Is the liability in Germany uncapped?

Didn't find anything, but I imagine it's similar to normal car insurance. In Germany most insurances are capped at 100m (legal minimum is 7.7m). Most expensive accident in history was 32m.

It's important to note that healthcare is much cheaper in Germany than in the US. In addition to that, compensation for injuries also tends to be much lower. That massively affects the costs of accidents.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#179

Post by dx034 »

Hamuko wrote: post #69
mrtksn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s a branding issue. It was supposed to be a SV darling to do it first, not some legacy German carmaker. You can see significantly more negativity for non-SV tech, especially when they do something outside of the narrative. If it’s an electric car, should be batteries and not fuel cells for example. This is also one of the reasons why if a company wants to go big needs to move to SV. It looks much better wh…

In my mind it makes sense for Mercedes-Benz to be the first one to do this. There's probably a laundry list of automotive firsts that are associated with just the Mercedes-Benz S-Class.

And Mercedes has been pumping huge amounts of money into it for at least a decade. They're just much more conservative than typical SV companies so they only publicly announce products when they're ready.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#180

Post by dx034 »

dotancohen wrote: post #67
TekMol wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, a large part of HN users seem to hate every fundamentally new technology. It seems the majority here thinks the next 20 years will be like the last 20 years, with only minor, gradial improvements. And every idea of a bigger shift is a scam. I have yet to see a good explanation of this. Maybe this is the case on every forum, simply because that is the prevailing attitude among people in general? Durin…

It seems to me that a large part of HN users are over forty. I'm over forty. When I was twenty, every new technology that promised the world was to be believed. Now that I'm over forty, the bar for believing in a new hype is very very high. This may be more a result of news outlets exaggerating claims, than of actual creative entities themselves overpromising.

The thing is, most Mercedes employees are over forty. So while news outlets might exaggerate, Mercedes doesn't really. They tend to only publish products when they're ready.
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