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Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

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Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#121

Post by tmzt »

spookie wrote: post #98
paxys wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been on Jeff's side of this bet since they announced it. Level 5 is simply too high of a bar to reach in the next few years, and in fact we are going about it the wrong way. We need smart roads more than smart cars. (Note that there's an escape hatch here, which is that the AI falls back to some human in a call center for guidance to get out of sticky situations. In my opinion that still doesn't qualify as lev…

Same, I don't see it happening unless most cars in the road have the capabality of intercommunication to perform sensor fusion with other cars. This implies that everyone gets on board using the same protocol. As for smart roads, what would these imply? Bear in mind maintenance costs and the fact that asphalt is 100% recycled and reusable.

Maybe something as simple as an active RF emitter in the reflective or similar spikes added to the road surface. It wouldn't require a networked infrastructure, or complex standards. Just something capable of penetrating feet of snow or inches of dirt and grime.

The car would always have other sensors to fallback on, but this would reduce the amount of time that the DDT disengages due to inclement weather or other road hazards.

Add to this emitters in cones and possibly emergency vehicles.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#122

Post by michaelteter »

oblio wrote: post #95
paxys wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been on Jeff's side of this bet since they announced it. Level 5 is simply too high of a bar to reach in the next few years, and in fact we are going about it the wrong way. We need smart roads more than smart cars. (Note that there's an escape hatch here, which is that the AI falls back to some human in a call center for guidance to get out of sticky situations. In my opinion that still doesn't qualify as lev…

> We need smart roads more than smart cars. Then this is close to impossible :-) The existing road infrastucture maintenance burden is already crushing financially, imagine if we add smart roads to it.

This is a "road smell"; not unlike a code smell, it's when the current scenario has such awkward and ugly (and low chance of success) solutions that you must stop and consider the premise and original goal.

In this case, the original goal is to get people from A to B. And, pardon the pun, but cars and roads are a dead end solution.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#123

Post by Dylan16807 »

oblio wrote: post #95
paxys wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been on Jeff's side of this bet since they announced it. Level 5 is simply too high of a bar to reach in the next few years, and in fact we are going about it the wrong way. We need smart roads more than smart cars. (Note that there's an escape hatch here, which is that the AI falls back to some human in a call center for guidance to get out of sticky situations. In my opinion that still doesn't qualify as lev…

> We need smart roads more than smart cars. Then this is close to impossible :-) The existing road infrastucture maintenance burden is already crushing financially, imagine if we add smart roads to it.

I'm imagining it going up 2%. What's your imagination?

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#124

Post by chmod775 »

glitchc wrote: post #10
mmsimanga wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am paraphrasing a quote I have heard before, "Pioneers get the bullets and settlers get the land." Might not be actual bullets but pioneers today have to deal with legislators, put up charging stations, develop most components from scratch and so on. These are the modern day bullets. If they don't get bought by a larger company the larger company launches a competing product with the benefit of the experiences of t…

Can't argue that Tesla's smaller than Mercedes when Tesla's market cap is so much larger. In 2021, at it's peak Tesla's market cap crossed $1.2 Trillion. Daimler at it's peak this year only reached $81 Billion (although climbing). Why couldn't Tesla just buy out Daimler? Even now Tesla sitting at a valuation of $372 Billion. It could happen tomorrow. Tell me Elon's the savvy businessman you claim him to be. If Gates…

Falsehoods HN believes about market cap...

Market cap has little to do with actual size of a company (employees, manufacturing capacity, ...), nor can a company with a larger market cap automatically buy a smaller one. Especially the latter completely ignores how markets work.

These mistakes are particularly egregious when you bring meme stocks like Tesla into it.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#125

Post by lokimedes »

Toumassa wrote: post #119

Very cool, still dont understand why electric cars got to be ugly ... The design is more like Prius than S-class.. Sorry for being off topic.

Is it the Googlefication of cars? I remember when Google and later Material became the lodestone of interfaces, arguably moving most online graphics towards infantile colors and curves.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#126

Post by bsder »

winrid wrote: post #116
paxys wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been on Jeff's side of this bet since they announced it. Level 5 is simply too high of a bar to reach in the next few years, and in fact we are going about it the wrong way. We need smart roads more than smart cars. (Note that there's an escape hatch here, which is that the AI falls back to some human in a call center for guidance to get out of sticky situations. In my opinion that still doesn't qualify as lev…

> We need smart roads more than smart cars. Ah yes, trains. :)

It would be very nice to be able to "link" my electric car into a convoy of other electric cars at say "San Diego" and allow the system to take said convoy to somewhere in "Los Angeles" and reassert control.

This would solve a lot of the "last mile" problems that we currently have with train stations in the US (need to park at one terminus, need to get picked up at the other, can't deal with accidents on rails, etc.).

When they are on water, we call them "ferries".

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#127

Post by ahartmetz »

Toumassa wrote: post #119

Very cool, still dont understand why electric cars got to be ugly ... The design is more like Prius than S-class.. Sorry for being off topic.

I kind of like it, it's moving away from the overly aggressive looking style of most modern cars. Maybe we can have cars for adults again instead of these Transformers-style designs. A shape that is fit for purpose (aerodynamic) is part of that.

BMW and Mercedes switch places periodically in technical and design leadership, and I think it's Mercedes's time. BMW has been going off the rails recently...

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#128

Post by trompetenaccoun »

_the_inflator wrote: post #115
stillworks wrote: post #110

The article doesn’t mention the cutoff speed for L3 though. I think in Germany it is limited to 60km/h or 40mi/h. Also, only certified in Nevada currently (but California to follow soon). And seems like available only in S class or EQS class. Basically, for now benefits chauffeurs of expensive limo companies ferrying customers along the Las Vegas strip (admittedly an over simplification for the purpose of humour)

This has changed. Starting 2023 130km/h. Source: https://www.heise.de/news/Hochautomatisiertes-Fahren-bis-130...

Oh Germany.

Cannabis legalization and everything else: "We need to study the potential effects for 20 years to be absolutely sure it's safe."

Allowing Mercedes let cars drive 130km/h on their own: "Seems about fine, signed."

Not complaining about the lack of bureaucracy in this case but it is crazy how fast they got the initial law change passed and now they've even updated the speed to 130, even though no car is capable of qualifying yet.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#129

Post by Dylan16807 »

judge2020 wrote: post #23

For reference, level 3 is not exactly well-defined; the main requirements for level 3 over a level 2 system are[0][1]: - OEDR is required, which is "monitoring the driving environment (detecting, recognizing, and classifying objects and events and preparing to respond as needed) and executing an appropriate response to such objects and events (i.e., as needed to complete the DDT and/or DDT fallback [fallback to drive…

I look at level 2 through level 4 as a spectrum of how much warning a driver gets before they have to take over.

Level 2 is 0 seconds; the driver has to watch constantly.

Level 4 is indefinite, or alternatively we could say "minutes". The car can pull over if necessary.

For this particular level 3 system, it's 10 seconds. That seems pretty reasonable for level 3.

And as you said, the ODD of levels 3 and 4 is entirely up to the manufacturer. Only level 5 has a domain by definition, which is matching human ability.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#130

Post by nelox »

judge2020 wrote: post #23

For reference, level 3 is not exactly well-defined; the main requirements for level 3 over a level 2 system are[0][1]: - OEDR is required, which is "monitoring the driving environment (detecting, recognizing, and classifying objects and events and preparing to respond as needed) and executing an appropriate response to such objects and events (i.e., as needed to complete the DDT and/or DDT fallback [fallback to drive…

It is well-defined given its scope as a taxonomical classification, rather than a technical specification.

From the opening paragraph [0]:

“This document does not provide specifications, or otherwise impose requirements on, driving automation systems (for further elaboration, see 8.1).

[1]: “8.1 This document is not a specification and imposes no requirements. This document provides a logical taxonomy for classifying driving automation features (and ADS-equipped vehicles), along with a set of terms and definitions that support the taxonomy and otherwise standardize related concepts, terms and usage in order to facilitate clear communications. As such, it is a convention based upon reasoned agreement, rather than a technical specification.“

0: https://saemobilus.sae.org/download/?fileFormat=pdf&cid=1000...

1: https://saemobilus.sae.org/download/?fileFormat=pdf&cid=1000...

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