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Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

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Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#11

Post by freetime2 »

kortilla wrote: post #3

> According to the SAE levels of driving automation, a Level 3-capable vehicle can take over certain driving tasks, but a driver is still required to be present and ready to take control of the car at all times when prompted to intervene. The first part of the article mentions the driver being able to take a meeting or watch a movie. That’s complete horseshit if they need to be ready to take control of the car at all…

It certainly sounds like a contradiction, but I suppose it comes down to how much time the driver has to take control "when prompted to intervene". If they are expected to take control in (for example) less than one second's notice, then yes driver must keep their attention on the road at all times.

If the car is able to recognize far enough in advance that it doesn't know what to do in a situation and reduce speed, pull over, etc., then that could be enough time for a person to put down their phone and take control of the vehicle.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#12

Post by cudgy »

lkrubner wrote: post #2

It used to be common to point out that 1/3rd of all of the self-made multimillionaires in the USA eventually go bankrupt. I don't know what the current statistic is, but 20 years ago I studied the issue in some detail, and the pattern was: 1. entrepreneur sees an opportunity that no one else sees 2. entrepreneur takes some big risks to take advantage of the opportunity 3. entrepreneur becomes wealthy because they too…

Step 5 should include grooming capable executives to take the reins of the company so it is not solely dependent on a single person.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#13

Post by judge2020 »

CyanLite4 wrote: post #7
kortilla wrote: post #3

> According to the SAE levels of driving automation, a Level 3-capable vehicle can take over certain driving tasks, but a driver is still required to be present and ready to take control of the car at all times when prompted to intervene. The first part of the article mentions the driver being able to take a meeting or watch a movie. That’s complete horseshit if they need to be ready to take control of the car at all…

L3 driving is only available at low speeds, approx 35mph which means only useful for stop-and-go traffic. Many cars with adaptive cruise control can already do this. Source: https://www.rambus.com/blogs/driving-automation-levels/#leve...

The public page makes no such distinction[0].

I created a mySAE account to download the full spec. What I found is that the manufacturer generally has fairly free reign to define their "operational design domain (ODD)" for level 3 systems, aka what conditions the car's "level 3" operation is designed for and can operate under. The only real requirement for level 3 is that OEDR is required (monitoring the driving environment (detecting, recognizing, and classifying objects and events and preparing to respond as needed) and executing an appropriate response to such objects and events (i.e., as needed to complete the DDT and/or DDT fallback [fallback to driver]).

0: https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#14

Post by drusepth »

CyanLite4 wrote: post #7
kortilla wrote: post #3

> According to the SAE levels of driving automation, a Level 3-capable vehicle can take over certain driving tasks, but a driver is still required to be present and ready to take control of the car at all times when prompted to intervene. The first part of the article mentions the driver being able to take a meeting or watch a movie. That’s complete horseshit if they need to be ready to take control of the car at all…

L3 driving is only available at low speeds, approx 35mph which means only useful for stop-and-go traffic. Many cars with adaptive cruise control can already do this. Source: https://www.rambus.com/blogs/driving-automation-levels/#leve...

Then why does the article claim Mercedes is the first automaker to offer L3 driving?

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#15

Post by jmole »

glitchc wrote: post #10
mmsimanga wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am paraphrasing a quote I have heard before, "Pioneers get the bullets and settlers get the land." Might not be actual bullets but pioneers today have to deal with legislators, put up charging stations, develop most components from scratch and so on. These are the modern day bullets. If they don't get bought by a larger company the larger company launches a competing product with the benefit of the experiences of t…

Can't argue that Tesla's smaller than Mercedes when Tesla's market cap is so much larger. In 2021, at it's peak Tesla's market cap crossed $1.2 Trillion. Daimler at it's peak this year only reached $81 Billion (although climbing). Why couldn't Tesla just buy out Daimler? Even now Tesla sitting at a valuation of $372 Billion. It could happen tomorrow. Tell me Elon's the savvy businessman you claim him to be. If Gates…

Buying a major car company is buying a whole heap of liabilities and depreciating assets. The major value drivers (contributors to market cap) are brand, patent portfolio, and future revenues from existing capex.

Tesla doesn't want to support the supply chain of new and used parts for a legacy car company, they can barely keep up with their own (and they only make 4 models!).

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#16

Post by nullish_signal »

bfeynman wrote: post #5
nullish_signal wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps Tesla will suffer, very possible, but where are the Mercedes Satellite Constellations and re-usable Rockets? Mercedes Brain-Computer Interfaces? Musk's businesses seems so financially diversified that one bombing overnight could just take some cash from the others. He's already leveraged Tesla stock to buy a massive Social Media platform, right? But the profitability of Twitter is certainly another point to b…

fyi neuralink fundamentally doesn't work.

Monkeys typing with Neuralink also seemed like a Cut and Dry demonstration of the potential usefulness of the device.

I'm baffled as to how you can say "fyi it's fundamentally broken" without giving more detail.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#17

Post by brigade »

kortilla wrote: post #3

> According to the SAE levels of driving automation, a Level 3-capable vehicle can take over certain driving tasks, but a driver is still required to be present and ready to take control of the car at all times when prompted to intervene. The first part of the article mentions the driver being able to take a meeting or watch a movie. That’s complete horseshit if they need to be ready to take control of the car at all…

Big difference between needing to keep attention on the road because the car is liable to hit parked cars obstructing the travel lane, and merely having to be ready to start paying attention when the operational design domain of a L3 system is no longer met. Like for this Drive Pilot, when traffic speeds up to 40 MPH.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#18

Post by ck2 »

lkrubner wrote: post #2

It used to be common to point out that 1/3rd of all of the self-made multimillionaires in the USA eventually go bankrupt. I don't know what the current statistic is, but 20 years ago I studied the issue in some detail, and the pattern was: 1. entrepreneur sees an opportunity that no one else sees 2. entrepreneur takes some big risks to take advantage of the opportunity 3. entrepreneur becomes wealthy because they too…

Musk never had the features he was claiming, it was all bravado

https://gizmodo.com/feds-investigate-elon-musk-tweet-tesla-s...

The competition thought the claims were real and actually made it happen.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#19

Post by miles »

CyanLite4 wrote: post #7
kortilla wrote: post #3

> According to the SAE levels of driving automation, a Level 3-capable vehicle can take over certain driving tasks, but a driver is still required to be present and ready to take control of the car at all times when prompted to intervene. The first part of the article mentions the driver being able to take a meeting or watch a movie. That’s complete horseshit if they need to be ready to take control of the car at all…

L3 driving is only available at low speeds, approx 35mph which means only useful for stop-and-go traffic. Many cars with adaptive cruise control can already do this. Source: https://www.rambus.com/blogs/driving-automation-levels/#leve...

> L3 driving is only available at low speeds, approx 35mph

In that case, this paragraph from the article doesn't make much sense (in fairness, it was on pretty shaky ground to begin with):

> Mercedes’ Level 3 conditionally automated driving assistant can, on suitable highway sections [emphasis added] and where traffic density is high, offer to take over the driving, leaving the driver free to do something else, like watch a movie or participate in a meeting.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#20

Post by glitchc »

jmole wrote: post #15
glitchc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't argue that Tesla's smaller than Mercedes when Tesla's market cap is so much larger. In 2021, at it's peak Tesla's market cap crossed $1.2 Trillion. Daimler at it's peak this year only reached $81 Billion (although climbing). Why couldn't Tesla just buy out Daimler? Even now Tesla sitting at a valuation of $372 Billion. It could happen tomorrow. Tell me Elon's the savvy businessman you claim him to be. If Gates…

Buying a major car company is buying a whole heap of liabilities and depreciating assets. The major value drivers (contributors to market cap) are brand, patent portfolio, and future revenues from existing capex. Tesla doesn't want to support the supply chain of new and used parts for a legacy car company, they can barely keep up with their own (and they only make 4 models!).

Well, you know, you also get an established luxury brand, a cadre of brand-loyal customers, a significant increase in the manufacturing base and tons of proprietary tech. Are you telling me Mr. Musk would have bothered to create his own brand if he had enough capital to buy an existing brand to start with? The latter is a much safer strategy in bringing a car to market. He took big risks creating his own brand because he lacked the initial capital to buy one outright.
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