Tesla Vehicle Safety Report • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#21

Post by killjoywashere » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

photoGrant wrote: post #2

> For example, more than 35% of all Autopilot crashes occur when the Tesla vehicle is rear-ended by another vehicle. Well, if you want to know why some people are rear ending a Tesla, it's because it's far more unpredictable than a human driver. https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-auto... Also it seems to contradict itself on data collection. First; > In practice, this correlates to nearly any cra…

Keep in mind, you can reasonably assume many minor accidents don't get reported to the government database. But Tesla is afflicted by perfect (or near perfect) knowledge of every vehicle in the fleet. A line has to be drawn somewhere. 0.1 mph? 2 mph? 25 mph? Half that? Where would you draw the line to be comparable to the federal data?

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#22

Post by etchalon » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

My main question is whether the miles equated are in fact equal.

Autopilot is used far more often on the highway, I believe, than in residential areas – where I also believe crashes are more frequent.

It'd be interesting to see the miles broken down by road type, speed, etc.

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#23

Post by gnicholas » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #14

bdcravens wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the Tesla always activate its brake lights when slowing down? (I have an EV6, and I don't even know if brakes lights come on when I'm using regen as opposed to the brake pedal) When I'm driving and traffic is stopped ahead, I used to always brake not because I had to, but as an indication to the car behind me.

Yes, as soon as you hit regen your brake lights come on. I tested this with a Honda Hybrid a long time ago to make sure. If your car has a diagram somewhere that you can display while driving you will actually see it on the display.

This isn't a universal truth. It varies by vehicle, and apparently even by what level of regen is selected.

https://www.greencarfuture.com/electric/does-regen-braking-t...

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#24

Post by tyingq » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:47 PM UTC

fortylove wrote: post #6

bdcravens wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the Tesla always activate its brake lights when slowing down? (I have an EV6, and I don't even know if brakes lights come on when I'm using regen as opposed to the brake pedal) When I'm driving and traffic is stopped ahead, I used to always brake not because I had to, but as an indication to the car behind me.

Thanks for asking this. I've never thought of the implications of re-gen braking when slowing down!

Might be a nice addition for other cars, for example, when you aggressively downshift and decelerate that way.

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#25

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:48 PM UTC

enslavedrobot wrote: post #3

photoGrant wrote: post #2

> For example, more than 35% of all Autopilot crashes occur when the Tesla vehicle is rear-ended by another vehicle. Well, if you want to know why some people are rear ending a Tesla, it's because it's far more unpredictable than a human driver. https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-auto... Also it seems to contradict itself on data collection. First; > In practice, this correlates to nearly any cra…

Given that per the NHTSA 29% of all accidents are rear end collisions, I don't think the 35% number is meaningful, given the small sample size. Also: Tesla has always been clear about their definition of "crash", it hasn't changed since they started reporting years ago.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#26

Post by Imnimo » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:51 PM UTC

I do believe that Teslas are quite safe despite the high-profile failures, but I'm very unconvinced by a stat that compares accidents per mile using autopilot to accidents per mile not using autopilot. Those are not comparable miles - people don't uniformly use autopilot across all driving conditions. Imagine you had a subsystem that did absolutely nothing, but people turned it on when driving on empty highways. It's accidents per mile number would look great!

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#27

Post by CamperBob2 » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:51 PM UTC

bagels wrote: post #17

photoGrant wrote: post #2

> For example, more than 35% of all Autopilot crashes occur when the Tesla vehicle is rear-ended by another vehicle. Well, if you want to know why some people are rear ending a Tesla, it's because it's far more unpredictable than a human driver. https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-auto... Also it seems to contradict itself on data collection. First; > In practice, this correlates to nearly any cra…

Autopilot does emergency braking for nonexistent obstacles. I'm sure it's contributing to rear end collision risk. I stopped using it for this reason.

Every autonomous braking system has that problem, including the one in my 2020 Macan. They are dangerously-flaky hacks. As of 2025 they are mandated by law.

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#28

Post by cyrux004 » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:53 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #27

bagels wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot does emergency braking for nonexistent obstacles. I'm sure it's contributing to rear end collision risk. I stopped using it for this reason.

Every autonomous braking system has that problem, including the one in my 2020 Macan. They are dangerously-flaky hacks. As of 2025 they are mandated by law.

Apparently not as common as Tesla. You should read about "phantom braking" issues on Tesla , especially after they removed the radar

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#29

Post by CamperBob2 » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:56 PM UTC

cyrux004 wrote: post #28

CamperBob2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every autonomous braking system has that problem, including the one in my 2020 Macan. They are dangerously-flaky hacks. As of 2025 they are mandated by law.

Apparently not as common as Tesla. You should read about "phantom braking" issues on Tesla , especially after they removed the radar

Yeah, I can't even imagine what it would be like to implement a system like that without radar. Tesla's approach would make a good Most Interesting Man In the World meme. "I don't always tackle the hardest engineering problems in human history, such as self-driving cars. But when I do, I tie one hand behind my back, close one eye, and consume some alcohol or drugs first."

One episode per 3000 miles is too many, and that's about what I was seeing before I disabled the feature.

Re: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

#30

Post by bryanlarsen » Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 8:57 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #27

bagels wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot does emergency braking for nonexistent obstacles. I'm sure it's contributing to rear end collision risk. I stopped using it for this reason.

Every autonomous braking system has that problem, including the one in my 2020 Macan. They are dangerously-flaky hacks. As of 2025 they are mandated by law.

Better a false positive (phantom braking) than a false negative (not braking when it should). I imagine they're all tuned with this in mine.