If the IRS were eliminated, how would they fund the defense budget that they cherish above all else?
Well uh, slashing the defense budget was literally one of the requirements made by extremists to get them to vote in a Republican house speaker.
House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
21–30 of 102 posts
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#22For better and worse, this is pretty much what I'd expect. It's not a serious attempt to genuinely govern or otherwise make reasonable policy, it's sending up an ideological flag, and since the fundamental ideology is actually opposed to the idea of well-functioning social institutions with mutual accountability...
I'm sorry I'm not following you. Are you saying that what the US has now is well-functioning social institutions with mutual accountability? Since they oppose this by trying to pull funding from them.
The US is astoundingly well-functioning and most US citizens astoundingly lucky by historical and/or global standards, and certain kinds of minimally functional mutual accountability are part of the reason why we've gotten this far.
There's also plenty of room for improvement of course (including learning from other industrial social democracies as well as recent internal issues), so that's relative, but the most reasonable perspective to start from is that we're all ridiculously lucky. Without substantial appreciation for that fact we're quite likely to wreck institutions that have gotten us here.
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#23This is just the first in a long list of "messaging" bills that will come from a very slim Republican House, because there is Democratic control of the Senate.
They know it won't become law. The point is to rile up the media, get hits on cable news, fund raise, and generally be useless as a governing body. This is what both parties do when they are out of power, and I would say is what they _prefer_ to do. It's easier than governing, makes them money, gets them media attention, etc.
Both parties here in the US _want_ to be minority parties so that they can behave this way and assume no actual responsibility for anything.
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#24I know that this isn't a serious piece of legislation, but just entertaining the idea of a consumption tax: wouldn't this hugely incentivize people to spend money overseas rather than domestically? Basically this would give people a huge discount if they take vacations abroad rather than domestically, to the point that it would make sense to do regular weekend trips to Mexico or Canada. In theory the government could…
another concerning point is that ultra-rich would be taxed much less, say now Bezos sells 100B of stock, he pays 20B in taxes (long term capital gain). With new tax he will pay nothing.
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#25For contrast, the first bill introduced in 2018 by the democrat-controlled house under newly minted Speaker Pelosi focused on voter suppression and anti-corruption[0]. Like this bill, it was ceremonial and had zero chance of passing the senate or getting the President’s signature.
[0] https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/11...
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#26I know that this isn't a serious piece of legislation, but just entertaining the idea of a consumption tax: wouldn't this hugely incentivize people to spend money overseas rather than domestically? Basically this would give people a huge discount if they take vacations abroad rather than domestically, to the point that it would make sense to do regular weekend trips to Mexico or Canada. In theory the government could…
another concerning point is that ultra-rich would be taxed much less, say now Bezos sells 100B of stock, he pays 20B in taxes (long term capital gain). With new tax he will pay nothing.
How often does bezos sell 100B of stock, vs how often does he buy cars and boats and houses? you have to look at both sides of the scale, i'm not sure he'd end up paying less as a consumption/sales tax. I think the major argument is that the income tax is a mess, and very difficult to administer
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#27I know that this isn't a serious piece of legislation, but just entertaining the idea of a consumption tax: wouldn't this hugely incentivize people to spend money overseas rather than domestically? Basically this would give people a huge discount if they take vacations abroad rather than domestically, to the point that it would make sense to do regular weekend trips to Mexico or Canada. In theory the government could…
another concerning point is that ultra-rich would be taxed much less, say now Bezos sells 100B of stock, he pays 20B in taxes (long term capital gain). With new tax he will pay nothing.
He would pay taxes on whatever he spends that 100B on. If he just has 100B sitting in his bank account does that really benefit him? Money is not worth anything until it's spent.
The problem with taxing money before it's spent is that you have no way of separating out "good" consumption (e.g. health care) from "bad" consumption (e.g. yachts, 2nd homes). That kind of system leads to convoluted tax codes and things like HSA's and using health insurance as a form of compensation.
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry I'm not following you. Are you saying that what the US has now is well-functioning social institutions with mutual accountability? Since they oppose this by trying to pull funding from them.
Republicans have run on a platform of "Government is terrible at it's job" for 50 years, and every time they get elected they work really hard to prove it.
I have a hard time combining this sentiment with my lived experience in California.
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#29This is just the first in a long list of "messaging" bills that will come from a very slim Republican House, because there is Democratic control of the Senate. They know it won't become law. The point is to rile up the media, get hits on cable news, fund raise, and generally be useless as a governing body. This is what both parties do when they are out of power, and I would say is what they _prefer_ to do. It's easie…
>They know it won't become law
Didn't Brexit start as a "there's no way this will actually happen" signaling gesture by establishment Conservatives?
Re: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax
#30For better and worse, this is pretty much what I'd expect. It's not a serious attempt to genuinely govern or otherwise make reasonable policy, it's sending up an ideological flag, and since the fundamental ideology is actually opposed to the idea of well-functioning social institutions with mutual accountability...
> since the fundamental ideology is actually opposed to the idea of well-functioning social institutions with mutual accountability
A charitable interpretation of Republican "fundamental ideology", as it were, would be that they prefer more well-functioning social institutions at lower levels of government, closer to the people those institutions are meant to serve. It would make sense than beyond just a publicity stunt to lower federal taxes and have states and localities tax more.
I can't take you seriously if you're claiming that one of the two major parties in this country isn't interested in the well-being of the country.