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England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

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Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#301
post #137
post #119

Just more admin fees and paperwork to build a building, making them more expensive. Make 30cm insulation a requirement so we don't pay £2000 per year for electric heating. I asked my property management company if they would, eghm, _consider_ improving external insulation, they responded they have no such legal requirements, so they won't. We pay 4x more for heating and warm water than in 2018, and have it colder and…

Most new builds are a B on the EPC scale [0]. I guess they could require that all new builds meet A? 0 - https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/energy-performance-...

The standard is really low, I bumped by flat from average D to B with £300... It didn't change much, because the building is from a naked, not insulated brick. This aspect isn't part of EPC benchmarks.

Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#302

If legislation is going to get involved, wouldn't better mobile coverage at faster speeds be the thing to go for? Wouldn't that have broader impact? I'm not saying the last mile doesn't count. Only that given the choice it feels like they went for the fax machine.

> wouldn't better mobile coverage at faster speeds be the thing to go for? Maybe, but you'd still need to have fibre run to any new builds to put a transceiver there to get the high speeds and to not saturate the bands that the transceivers are operating in. You might as well run the fibre into the house and let the home owner choose what to do with it.

Perhaps, but new construction homes tend to be more expensive, and (anecdotally) in nicer areas. Regardless, the benefits are limited to the household (of two to five?). On the otherhand, better mobile is for all.

Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#303
post #21

I think this comes across as shocking to Americans but the thing is the rest of the world treats internet as a utility so most governments try to get cheap and fast internet for as large a portion of the population as possible. Where as US cities and towns are stuck under its isp corporate monopolies.

Yep, it doesn't need to be treated as a utility, there just needs to be competition. Our Xfinity internet was locked at 150 Mbps for years until the local DSL provider (Centurylink) rolled out gigabit fiber. Suddenly Xfinity started offering gigabit also. Capitalism doesn't work if the market is captured by rent-seekers. Unfortunately this describes most American industries these days.

No it is not just about competition it needs to be treated as utility. Do you have 5-10 different companies bring their electricity wire or water pipes to your home of course not. It should be the same most cities should get fiber to the home themselves they can and let isp provide services over them for price let them compete on services. 10 different companies puting fiber all over a city won't be cost effective as they will do 10 times the work and 15-20 times the capital costs.

Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#304
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astound is also what RCN in the North East rebranded to. I’m paying $65 for 900mbps/20ish but with HBO Max included.

Enjoy that price while it lasts and get ready to haggle; the non-promotional rate (found on the "Rate Cards" page linked at the bottom of Astound's website) for your speed tier is $161.99 per month in addition to the Network Access and Maintenance Fee. At least in former RCN areas, there's usually at least a semi-viable competitor, and after being away for 2 months, you generally become eligible for the new customer…

Yeah there’s Comcast and I keep seeing a Verizon truck and hoping FIOS will come.

Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mandating technical decisions that cause waste ... What you mean waste ? The same infra that lets you download, lets you upload. Also, if only you knew the cost of wholesale bandwidth ...

> The same infra that lets you download, lets you upload. Not really. The DOCSIS protocol that runs the cable internet and GPON TDMA which runs fiber both dedicate more channels / bandwidth to download than upload. We could come up with new communication protocols that are symmetrical, but this would lower download speed in order to increase upload speed. It's a physical limitation of the universe we inhabit. That tr…

That's a protocol, not a hardware thing so no waste in the physical realm. Also, backbones are nowhere close to exhausting their capacity.

One could even argue that the change in topology to a more distributed network could actually reduce deployment/maintenance costs.

Source: Worked at an ISP for 2 years.

Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#306
post #90

Some color about buying home internet in London vs San Francisco (in my experience). I recently moved back from London to San Francisco. In my 3 years in central London (N1) I had to use a 5g hotspot (thank you, Vodafone unlimited) to get anything close to fast internet in my flat. If I went with a wired "broadband" connection I could not get more than 10Mbps down. The street next to mine had gigabit fiber though. Th…

>The reason? Almost all utility cables in London are underground.

I am assuming that is the same in most part of the world?

So it is a feature, not a bug.

Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#307
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you say is correct apart from "house prices in no way reflect the build cost". The build cost is expensive as there aren't many skilled trades people nowadays and there is a market of lemons. The few high quality building contractors that are trusted can charge huge amounts of money -- all of the others charge as much as they can get away with and just hope that you don't check their work...

Maybe, but around me, house demand hugely outstrips supply, so everyone buys at the limit of what they can afford. For sure, proper dumps that need significant renovation go for less, but they are super rare. Everything else goes for a price set by the size of the home and increasingly, the size of garden. New builds command a slight premium, but that's mostly a marketing premium, which doesn't hold for resale. It's…

Not to argue, but rather to add my experience as it is fairly unique, I did a renovation to a property that cost a low six-figure amount of money (£).

Few have done this so whenever this conversation happens everybody talks about house prices as if there is nothing driving them other than "planning permission is an expensive, time-costly and risky endeavour" -- that's not all as the cost of doing building work is very high! While there were a range of build costs given to us by building contractors, they were all eye-wateringly expensive and at the lower end you have to carefully consider the risk of fraud.

Overall we had a very painful experience and the project was beset with poorly executed work and fraud until we realised what was happening half-way through the project and diverted a large amount of our resources into sorting everything out [0]. As a professional software engineer, I'm used to being able to trust that people will do what they say, but this market is a whole different game and much more cutthroat. We specified exactly the work that should be done and the materials that should be used with an architect's help but this isn't enough: you have to carefully evaluate every single piece of work to ensure compliance and be ready for gamesmanship/fraud or even financial/legal conflict from contractors.

My point is that house prices must reflect the the costs/risks of building and these are numerous:

  - Designing, quantifying and specifying work 
  - Navigating bureaucracy and failure to get sign-off
    causing costly re-designs
  - On-site supervision of workers completion of jobs and
    assessment of materials used
  - Evaluations of work completed by independent surveyors
  - Organisational and project management skill
  - Understanding of construction and contract law with its
    many peculiarities (e.g. were you aware that you must pay
    *any* amount that a building contractor specifies in a 
    validly constructed payment notice unless you have sent 
    a pay less notice with calculations showing otherwise? 
    This is often used in "Smash and Grab" abjudications to
    force clients to pay money as "if the paying party does
    not serve the right notice against your application then
    they must pay first and argue later." [1])
There aren't as many skilled tradespeople as there used to be and quality building work is labour/skill intensive, complex and risky. My experiences leads me to believe that the lack of competition between contractors is just as likely to be driving high house prices as overall planning risks/costs. (It's just that the former is opaque and invisible to most people even if they work in research/policy.)

  [0] Our contractor went as far as attempting to extort money from us by getting a subcontractor to send threats to us and finally slinked away unscathed once we involved a quantity surveyor and lawyer.
  [1] https://helix-law.co.uk/smash-and-grab-adjudication-overview/

Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

£800 per month? That seems a lot for a family home, even during these times. And that’s only for gas, electricity excluded? How big is the house and is there zero insulation, eg single pane windows?

It's a 4.5 bed detached; solid walls, suspended floor, large bay windows, some of the double glazing is shot, hard wood floor downstairs, high ceilings, some of the radiators are too small or too oldz some of the piping is too small and not insulated and runs under the house where it's extra cold. Yes this all needs fixing, yes we working on it, but we only moved in a few months ago, it takes time, and money. The ~£8…

That's crazy having to spend so much on heating alone, hopefully it gets warmer soon.

Maybe try electric blankets - I've seen ones where you can use them like a poncho - keeping you warm while working. Must be cheaper than having to heat an entire room.

Re: England just made gigabit internet a legal requirement for new homes

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a 4.5 bed detached; solid walls, suspended floor, large bay windows, some of the double glazing is shot, hard wood floor downstairs, high ceilings, some of the radiators are too small or too oldz some of the piping is too small and not insulated and runs under the house where it's extra cold. Yes this all needs fixing, yes we working on it, but we only moved in a few months ago, it takes time, and money. The ~£8…

That's crazy having to spend so much on heating alone, hopefully it gets warmer soon. Maybe try electric blankets - I've seen ones where you can use them like a poncho - keeping you warm while working. Must be cheaper than having to heat an entire room.

We've gotten some electric blankets for the kids and some heated throws for ourselves, also the weather is a bit milder in the positive single digit range so it's easing up a little for now, but who knows what's to come.
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