Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

barrons.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 362 posts

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#271

Post by zinekeller »

mrtksn wrote: post #245
jamiegreen wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never mattered if you live in a country with a stable currency and access to modern financial services. If that is you, you are in a very small minority of the world population. For the rest of the world, there seems to be some value... https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-global-crypto-adop...

This is a complete BS, currently I'm in a country with very unstable currency that lost so much value during the last 2 crypto booms(2017, 2021) and I know what actually happened on the ground. Crypto adoption is indeed high, much more than the western world but people are not in it to protect themselves from a volatile exchange rates but because they are desperate for a side hustle to make the ends meet. Those who a…

> The "unbanked" concept is also complete BS, in those 3.rd world countries the banking systems and the fintech infrastructure is much more advanced than the ones in the west.

I've always noticed this hole said by cryptobros, and 4/5 of them who says this are Americans who never have interacted even with SEPA or (Canadian) Interac. It seems that this disconnect that "since American banks are already worse imagine what banks these people do have" without realising that the US has one of the worst domestic interbanking systems in developed countries - actually, delete developed as you correctly pointed out that developing countries have way better interbanking systems than the US. (To be fair, some of the hurdles apparently have legal concerns, but most of them can be explained by "(US) banks don't care about new technology".)

Edit: I have actually explained years ago why the unbanked are usually unbanked: it's not really solvable by technology.

- Wars. Most people in warzones don't want to hold a bank account because it is very unreliable. Cryptocurrency won't solve that problem, in fact it will exacerbate the problem because of your phone or computer is damaged it's game over*. Also, how do you even transact when you don't have any form of communication?

- Actually don't have anything to bank on. Their money is just enough to survive, so they can't even bank, regardless of its form. Giving cryptocurrency is often a proposed solution, while forgetting that regular currency works fine too in these situations.

- Cultural differences. Most, to be honest, don't want to depart their money to someone they don't know. They were introduced to money just a generation or two ago, so they are relatively new here. Good luck convincing that cryptocurrency is trustworthy in a way that can be easily understand.

* I mean you could write them on paper, but that's really stretching it, mainly because you need a computer to execute transactions.

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#272

Post by notahacker »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #254
brianmcc wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> you are in a very small minority of the world population Really? So EU, UK, USA, China, Australia, with stable currencies, are a small minority..? Sorry but countries with wild instability are the minority and frankly gold would seem to be a better store of value if that's anyone's concern. Crypto remains speculation i.e. a gamble not a store of value.

After 2022, you still think that these countries (EU, UK, etc.) have a stabile currency? Well, that's some serious positive thinking. I'm still curious to see how people will react when we get a real crash within the next few years.

The worst inflation the UK and EU saw in decades saw their currencies lose 10% of their purchasing power in a year due to an energy price spike caused by a war (and the unwillingness of the central bank to take drastic action to counter it).

Also over the course of 2022, BTC lost more than half its purchasing power, meaning that anybody in the UK or EU that used it as a hedge against inflation got severely burned...

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#273

Post by mrtksn »

zinekeller wrote: post #271
mrtksn wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complete BS, currently I'm in a country with very unstable currency that lost so much value during the last 2 crypto booms(2017, 2021) and I know what actually happened on the ground. Crypto adoption is indeed high, much more than the western world but people are not in it to protect themselves from a volatile exchange rates but because they are desperate for a side hustle to make the ends meet. Those who a…

> The "unbanked" concept is also complete BS, in those 3.rd world countries the banking systems and the fintech infrastructure is much more advanced than the ones in the west. I've always noticed this hole said by cryptobros, and 4/5 of them who says this are Americans who never have interacted even with SEPA or (Canadian) Interac. It seems that this disconnect that "since American banks are already worse imagine wha…

Exactly, just added that to my post and noticed your comment. The "bank the unbanked" feed on the ignorance and superiority complex of the people in the western word. I guess they imagine that they are providing technology to people living in huts. How do they even imagine making money from this? Is it something like the guy in the hut is actually resource rich but wasn’t able to get a bank account to do business so they will enable him sell the milk and they will get a cut?

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#274

Post by xigoi »

tnel77 wrote: post #111
eli wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually send money across borders using Wise.com or wire transfers. What am I missing out on with bitcoin?

What are the associated costs with those services?

Probably lower than with Bitcoin.

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#275

Post by xigoi »

hem777 wrote: post #235
epolanski wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold's value stems from its unique properties as a metal and of its scarcicity.

Bitcoin’s value stems from its unique properties as a digital network and of its scarcity.

What would those unique properties be?

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#276

Post by Symbiote »

kavalg wrote: post #267
zirgs wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tiny amount of gold costs a shitload of money. 1kg of gold costs around 60k eur. More than most people have in savings. No problems to transport something like that if you don't brag that you own it. But the same applies to BTC. Telling others that you own a large amount of it is not a good idea. It can be stolen in various ways too. Like by an exchange that's owned by a trustworthy and altruistic billionaire. It's…

I don't think it is so simple. There is already a EUR 10k limit on the amount of cash that you can carry across EU border without declaring it. In case of violations the money may be confiscated. I would assume that the same would apply for gold above some reasonable value (e.g. a really big gold necklace :) ).

So the use case is evading tax, money laundering etc.

Glad we got to the point eventually.

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#277

Post by miracle2k »

mrtksn wrote: post #263
thepangolino wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Providing banking services to people who are unbanked for political reasons is one of the main advantages of crypto imho. This is something you can get hit by in so called democratic countries as Canada demonstrated last year. https://www.businessinsider.com/trudeau-canada-freeze-bank-a...

This is not true at all. If the government doesn't want you to do something with your money its only a matter of time to catch up. So you got untouchable by the banks because you participated in a political uprising that failed? You think that crypto will save you? Think again because it's only matter of time before the government makes it illegal to accept payments from that alternative payment method or from you di…

The government can also make the use of cash illegal. They can also put a huge dent into encrypted messaging by sending anyone caught using straight to the electric chair. They can drag you out of your home at night. (So can your neighbour for that matter).

The argument was never that crypto is some kind of magic shield against bullets. It's simply a tool. It raises the cost of certain kinds of abuses for the state. In the balance between the individual and the state, it shifts the power, ever so slightly, to the former.

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#278

Post by mrtksn »

miracle2k wrote: post #277
mrtksn wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true at all. If the government doesn't want you to do something with your money its only a matter of time to catch up. So you got untouchable by the banks because you participated in a political uprising that failed? You think that crypto will save you? Think again because it's only matter of time before the government makes it illegal to accept payments from that alternative payment method or from you di…

The government can also make the use of cash illegal. They can also put a huge dent into encrypted messaging by sending anyone caught using straight to the electric chair. They can drag you out of your home at night. (So can your neighbour for that matter). The argument was never that crypto is some kind of magic shield against bullets. It's simply a tool. It raises the cost of certain kinds of abuses for the state.…

In that regard, crypto is like hard to use easy to lose cash.

Cash, unlike crypto, is hard to trace. The best can do is to use chemical markers.

Government making cash illegal doesn’t mean much as it is pure p2p with no integrated bookkeeping or remote sensing.

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#279

Post by ls15 »

oblio wrote: post #247
jamiegreen wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you are being intentionally condescending but you are coming across that way. I am going to assume good intention here. I am not that familiar with the 'end use ' of paying for stuff directly, maybe you can't in Moldova. Even if you can't pay for things directly, there are plenty of relevant uses. Simply using USDC can be a great store of value for people if their currency is collapsing. See lebanon,…

Every bad thing has positive aspects just as every good thing also has negative ones. For now I'm against cryptocurrencies because every plus I've seen is outweighed by the con (pun intended). And this is actually the second time in a cryptocurrency topic that I ask this and nobody answers. Let's say I'm in Extremistan or Extremistia. How do I use cryptocurrency? Is it just a store of value? Can I use it for payments…

You'd need to find people/businesses who are willing to accept crypto in exchange for goods or services, and if that is not an option, you'd need to exchange crypto for local (or another accepted) currency.

If your government tries to stop you from doing that, it is of course much harder, but not impossible, since decentralized exchanges such as Bisq would be an option, as well as LocalMonero or regular old black markets, assuming that you have coins that someone is willing to pay for.

Re: The number of banks willing to do business with the crypto industry is shrinking

#280

Post by eli »

tnel77 wrote: post #111
eli wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually send money across borders using Wise.com or wire transfers. What am I missing out on with bitcoin?

What are the associated costs with those services?

A fraction of a percent.
Post reply on HN