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A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

disruptingjapan.com

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Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#141

Post by Cerium »

skissane wrote: post #126
IYasha wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also note the hereditary love for trade/manufacturing secrets which transformed into adoption of extremely proprietary licensing. Developers prior to ~2015 hardly ever considered publishing their code or even format specs. This secrecy has deep roots and it really annoys and pisses me off. I'm not narrowing down on corporate software - even hobbyists who write "dating games" would never publish code even if it's…

> I can hardly remember an example of FOSS from Japan except for CrystalDiskInfo. The programming language Ruby has to be the most famous Japanese open source software of them all

Of course that is because Matz is nice.

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#142

Post by PsycheOS »

Cloudef wrote: post #24

The japanese way of working doesn't work for software industry. Everything is so slow and there's too many different organizations cooking the same soup. Japanese way of working works best for things that already have been designed for you and just needs building. The only exception would be video games, but it seems game development is heavily followed and developed by a single company, compared to typical corporate…

The Japan method of working is also light and fast. It depends on industries and also particular companies.

Japanese love kata - kata is pattern so there is no reason they cannot use state of art of select from a variety of design or development patterns.

And they do.

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#143

Post by bamboozled »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #136
bamboozled wrote: post #113

One of the key issues of Japanese software is that most companies don't rethink problems and processes to suit software, they try make software around an existing process. Most Japanese companies will just try to automate, or digitize some type of manual process and keep the people involved, I'd say just to hang onto jobs because firing people in Japan is pretty much impossible. Recently while visiting Japan, I tried…

> but your credit card is "Ella Smith", the "people" won't accept it and their web app does weird things Ha. I live on street with a long but not that long name (18 chars for what it worth). I recently encountered a site what didn't want to accept my address because the full address was way too long . > credit card actually is written as SMITH ELLAMARY And here I am who specifically writes BANK NAME in the CARDHOLDER…

So they were cross checking the name on the card with the name on my passport, apparently they think it's a security check and some how not realizing that:

1. The name on the card is rather arbitrary.

2. Accepting names without spaces isn't really a good check IMO. If you wanted thing to line up exactly, spaces should be accounted for, but who cares? If it feels good...

This is a bit of a cultural thing I find common in Japan. It doesn't have to make logical sense, but it's a requirement and compliance is very important.

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#144

Post by PsycheOS »

namaria wrote: post #115
082349872349872 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's any comfort: Switzerland invented* the quartz watch. But swiss watchmakers were too good for that. * at least according to how swiss tell this story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_clock#History differs substantially. (but does mention Longines ca. 1966, which may have been how the story I heard arose? In any case, these days Longines has long since been bought by Swatch...)

Kodak invented digital photography. History is full of examples where people and companies couldn't see or capture the huge value of their inventions.

In the case of Kodak (my father used by an engineer there and his neighbor at time Kodak also in charge of digital cameras and was warning about digital cameras in the 1970s) and other incumbents like this ,for the current Csuite there is NO incentive to cannabilize the product and take risks and lose revenues (think film, processing, etc) to prepare for the future.

Kodak with digital cameras. Nokia with smart phones. etc.

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#145

Post by Klonoar »

etdev wrote: post #117
fexecve wrote: post #20

I disagree with everything in this article post-2000. There were no "software gatekeepers" preventing Japanese software from flourishing on the PC or Mac. I'm not sure what the author is talking about there. So there's still the unexplained question of why Japanese software is still bad, in 2023. And I think the answer is the language barrier. Windows and Mac dominate the world's computer systems, and the development…

> And I think the answer is the language barrier. This may contribute, but it's not the main issue imo. I've worked with tons of Japanese devs and English didn't hold them back much. Plus look at Ruby, which was all the rage in webdev at one point. It was invented in Japan, and it had better documentation in Japanese than English. Bigger issues for Japan's tech industry in 2023: - Lack of VC/Startup investment (0.02%…

>Plus look at Ruby, which was all the rage in webdev at one point. It was invented in Japan, and it had better documentation in Japanese than English.

Ruby has somewhat infamously had a divide between "Ruby programmers" and "Rails programmers". The fact that it was invented in Japan is fairly unrelated to anything about why it succeeded.

Ruby took off here due to Rails, and to a lesser degree _why's work way back in the day that made it so beloved.

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#146

Post by PsycheOS »

midoridensha wrote: post #133
namaria wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kodak invented digital photography. History is full of examples where people and companies couldn't see or capture the huge value of their inventions.

Xerox's PARC has to be the biggest example of a company not capturing the value of its inventions.

Absentee leadership with no understanding or care to monetize it - including the pricing on the first Xerox Computers.

Also many deca billion dollar spinouts from Xerox Parc: 1. SGI / silcon graphisc based on Jim Clarke's work on 3D chips. 2. 3Com / ethernet based on Bob Metcalfe's work. 3. Adobe based on John Warnock and Charles Geschke on vector graphics and printing. etc.

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#147

Post by PsycheOS »

skissane wrote: post #128

Bit of history many people are not aware of - in the 1980s, Japan developed its own indigenous operating system, TRON. Towards the end of that decade, the Japanese government wanted to adopt it as a national standard. The US government started threatening trade sanctions, which gave Japan cold feet. (Some accused Microsoft of being behind it, although others insist that’s untrue.) How would have the Japanese software…

Yep. It was to protect Microsoft and ultimately the deep state's surveillance capabilities.

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#148

Post by Klonoar »

tehnub wrote: post #51

>I am not going to waste your time or mine cataloging and complaining about the many, many bad practices, user-hostile design decisions, mind-boggling complex workflows, and poor development process that afflict Japanese software. >If you want details and debate about exactly how Japanese software falls short, or if you just in the mood for some good old-fashioned venting about being forced to use it, check out Reddi…

There's a significant amount of JP software that you would not encounter if you don't live there.

e.g, quite a number of banking apps

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#149

Post by ubercore »

courgette wrote: post #78
makeitdouble wrote: post #62

The key part to me: > But the rest of the word was moving in a different direction. The rest of the world was moving away from dedicated hardware and towards innovative software running on standard hardware platforms. This piece is about Japan vs the world, but looking at countries other than the US I'm not sure this narrative works. For instance did the UK become a Software behemoth ? France ? Germany ? Brazil ? Ind…

France had more than ok software company. Bull for instance. Ubisoft and a bazillion other video game company. Alcatel / Lucent / Thales for industrial stuff. For the deepness of my ass I would say failure was tree fold : - France like a good old top down approach. That … mostly don’t work for software. - France decided to listen to our American friends and sell the familly heirloom to the market. ( I’m bitter on thi…

This is an aside, but you can explain the phrase "For the deepness of my ass"? Never heard that one before!

Re: A mistake that killed Japan’s software industry?

#150

Post by rjsw »

courgette wrote: post #78
makeitdouble wrote: post #62

The key part to me: > But the rest of the word was moving in a different direction. The rest of the world was moving away from dedicated hardware and towards innovative software running on standard hardware platforms. This piece is about Japan vs the world, but looking at countries other than the US I'm not sure this narrative works. For instance did the UK become a Software behemoth ? France ? Germany ? Brazil ? Ind…

France had more than ok software company. Bull for instance. Ubisoft and a bazillion other video game company. Alcatel / Lucent / Thales for industrial stuff. For the deepness of my ass I would say failure was tree fold : - France like a good old top down approach. That … mostly don’t work for software. - France decided to listen to our American friends and sell the familly heirloom to the market. ( I’m bitter on thi…

France also has CATIA from Dassault Systems.
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