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Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

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Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#21
I think if you asked the engineers who designed the airbus in question, could you create a "leak" warning, using just the existing sensor suite, they'd say "sure".

You know the fuel level in each tank, and have a good estimate or actual flow data on engine fuel usage. Simple math says "leak" or "no leak".

If that would work, it is surprising it isn't in the software.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#22
post #5

Against my own inclination to never watch YouTube, I've become a bit obsessed with this one fellow who does excellent reconstructions and analyses of aviation incidents. He covers this one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9becqrhsedE

Seems a bit weird to say "never watch youtube". It's like never reading a book anymore because someone gave you a bad one. It's up to you to filter out content you dislike, just like with everything else.

[deleted]

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#23
post #21

I think if you asked the engineers who designed the airbus in question, could you create a "leak" warning, using just the existing sensor suite, they'd say "sure". You know the fuel level in each tank, and have a good estimate or actual flow data on engine fuel usage. Simple math says "leak" or "no leak". If that would work, it is surprising it isn't in the software.

If I recall, one of the duties of the pilots (usually the first officer's) is to keep track of fuel levels and consumption throughout the flight so any anomalies in the engine or fuel system can hopefully be found sooner.

If a human can do it, I would imagine a computer could automate the process. Likely wouldn't remove the need for the pilots to do it anyway, though; redundancy and reliability and all that.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#24
post #21

I think if you asked the engineers who designed the airbus in question, could you create a "leak" warning, using just the existing sensor suite, they'd say "sure". You know the fuel level in each tank, and have a good estimate or actual flow data on engine fuel usage. Simple math says "leak" or "no leak". If that would work, it is surprising it isn't in the software.

Make it broader - before take-off, pilots enter the expected destination (or expected distance). During cruising, computers keep track of how much fuel is being used (lost) per unit of time, and projects forward to see if they can still make their expected destination or not.

If the number does not reach within expected margins, then show an error.

This protects against leaks, but also miscalculation of fuel needed by the pilots, misfueling, or efficiency loss somehow.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#25
post #9

Interesting that they call Lajes a “military airfield”. On the Azorean island of Terceira, Lajes (TER) is a mixed use airfield that is the commercial landing strip of the island since the 1930s, as well as having a multi-national military base on the other side since the 1940s. There is a picture in the story. The NTSB report called it a military airbase, and other reports say “Military air traffic controllers guided…

To cross the Atlantic between NA and Europe you need to be able to travel 138 minutes from an airport, although for almost the entire area it’s 120 minutes. This is accomplished by having air strips which can take massive planes like A350s at remote places which can’t justify planes of that size normally like Newfoundland, Greenland and the Azores While these are mainly there for military and temporary emergency use,…

To cross the Atlantic with a twin-engined plane has that requirement (ETOPS).

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP but personally I'm the same. It's Google I don't like and also the video format, I have no patience for watching videos. Written content is much easier for me to absorb quickly and efficiently. Videos are always so tailored to the slowest viewer (especially training videos, I hate those!!) There's only a few YouTubers I have time for like ones that don't hide complexity, such as Dave Jones from EEVBlog.

YouTube now provide a setting to change the speed of a video. This means you can decrease or increase the speed to meet your viewing requirements.

Reading material quickly remains more comfortable than watching a sped-up video. There are many cases in which written material is a better way to transfer information than video.

A case in point would be this article, as it is clearly written, balanced and very digestible.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#27
post #24
post #21

I think if you asked the engineers who designed the airbus in question, could you create a "leak" warning, using just the existing sensor suite, they'd say "sure". You know the fuel level in each tank, and have a good estimate or actual flow data on engine fuel usage. Simple math says "leak" or "no leak". If that would work, it is surprising it isn't in the software.

Make it broader - before take-off, pilots enter the expected destination (or expected distance). During cruising, computers keep track of how much fuel is being used (lost) per unit of time, and projects forward to see if they can still make their expected destination or not. If the number does not reach within expected margins, then show an error. This protects against leaks, but also miscalculation of fuel needed b…

Garmin G1000 units (popular in small planes) show this, as a circle around the current position, including fuel reserve. However, it depends on an accurate fuel level, which is mostly dead-reckoned from integrating fuel consumption. Measuring the actual fuel level in wing tanks is imprecise and the sensors sometimes get stuck and give bogus readings.

Perhaps the big innovation needed is accurate fuel quantity measurement.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#28
post #2

About a near crash in 2001, you might have heard, the longest glide by commercial aircraft after fuel runs out. 32 min read for the whole story.

What is it about Canadian commercial jets having to glide to a landing after running out of fuel? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Canada doesn't have the best aircraft pilots, but we definitely have the world's best glider pilots.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#29
post #5

Against my own inclination to never watch YouTube, I've become a bit obsessed with this one fellow who does excellent reconstructions and analyses of aviation incidents. He covers this one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9becqrhsedE

Nice! I love that kind of video. So much to learn. For the Frenchies out there, former navy fighter pilot Até does a great job as well in the same vein: https://www.youtube.com/c/ATECHUETTOPGUN2SPEAKER/videos

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#30
post #27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make it broader - before take-off, pilots enter the expected destination (or expected distance). During cruising, computers keep track of how much fuel is being used (lost) per unit of time, and projects forward to see if they can still make their expected destination or not. If the number does not reach within expected margins, then show an error. This protects against leaks, but also miscalculation of fuel needed b…

Garmin G1000 units (popular in small planes) show this, as a circle around the current position, including fuel reserve. However, it depends on an accurate fuel level, which is mostly dead-reckoned from integrating fuel consumption. Measuring the actual fuel level in wing tanks is imprecise and the sensors sometimes get stuck and give bogus readings. Perhaps the big innovation needed is accurate fuel quantity measure…

Commercial airliners, and even some GA planes, have an accurate measure of fuel consumed using a fuel flow transducer.
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