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Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

tdcj.texas.gov

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Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Wikipedia: Jones experienced 'brutal conditions' during his childhood, suffering neglect by his parents, sexual assault by his siblings, and extreme poverty.[7][4][8] His mother threatened him with a gun, and when he was seven years old his older siblings forced him to have sex with his stepsister.[8] He shot himself twice, once in the hand to placate gang members and later in the chest in a suicide attempt. He…

There’s something very odd to me about the modern progressive position that, more or less, if you can explain a crime, then you can in some sense excuse it. That description of his childhood works for me in sociological terms — let’s avoid stuff that we know to create monsters — but not on individual ones (i.e. the monster, having been created, is indeed a monster).

>There’s something very odd to me about the modern progressive position that, more or less, if you can explain a crime, then you can in some sense excuse it.

I'm not following here. Who, specifically, is claiming that those who commit crimes shouldn't be held accountable (prosecuted, incarcerated, etc.) for those crimes because they had a rough childhood/suffered abuse/etc? Please do name names.

As a mild example, just as being drunk is a reason for being obnoxious/nasty, it's not an excuse.

As a person who is somewhat to the left of what other Americans call "progressives," (who are center/leaning center-left), I don't think that understanding something makes everything okay or that crimes should be ignored because of negative stuff in the perpetrator's past. In fact, I've never heard anyone make such a claim.

Many folks (at least in the US, and I'm sure elsewhere too) have been abused by society and the legal system. And we should make every effort to combat that.

However, there absolutely are folks who should be removed from society, as they've shown they cannot live in a society without harming it and/or those within it. And those people should be kept apart from society -- for the protection of society.

>That description of his childhood works for me in sociological terms — let’s avoid stuff that we know to create monsters — but not on individual ones (i.e. the monster, having been created, is indeed a monster).

Seems like a good idea. But no one (AFAIK) is trying to "excuse" criminal behavior even as we try to understand the causes.

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a materialist and a determinist I accept implicitly that everything has a cause and nobody is really responsible for anything, in some sense. But I find it’s pretty hard to actually live as though that’s true. Taken to its logical conclusions: I’m not even responsible for my belief that he’s responsible, and so on.

My response to this materialist argument is that it essentially goes full circle. Once everyone has no responsibility, you are just left with what are they and what did they do . Did they act like monster, independent of the upstream causality? I try to apply the same logic to myself when I get into a deterministic ego trip. The question of if I can choose to go the gym today is irrelevant. The relevant question is d…

It’s funny you say this, because it’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot recently. If you take the materialist position to its logical conclusion, then, in my view, instead of being exculpatory, you arrive back at an essentialist position.

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, to me, is a profoundly disturbing comment that presumes a level of competence and positive intent within the American criminal justice system that is provably absent.

I always liked the Boston Bombing example. Should the Boston bombers [1] receive the death penalty? A lot of arguments against the death penalty are that for many cases you can't actually be sure the person who committed the crime is actually the one convicted. So in those situations I don't think its appropriate it (i.e almost every death penalty case). However, something like the Boston bombing it's really beyond a…

What? No, why do you like this example? There is nothing special about this case that makes his guilt any more "certain" than any other case. Confessions have been proven to be shit, physical evidence is disturbingly often faked, eyewitnesses are among the least reliable sources of information possible, etc.

The American criminal justice system is designed to reach conclusions, and explicitly not designed to be accurate. That is no system upon which a capital punishment should ever be applied.

I would argue the Boston bombing is a great example of why we shouldn't execute people. He is clearly a disturbed person who needs help, not death.

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#234
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of looking at is that 22 years ago he did a terrible thing that he thought he would never do and has regretted ever since. This does not absolve him of shit, but: We then collectively, as a society, took 22 years to murder him back. Are we going to claim we did it as a mistake? Is ours a crime of passion? What excuse do we have for our violence? "He did it first"? So I find it hard to reconcile that we ar…

This is such a foolish way of looking at public order. The point is not whether murder is wrong or whether punishing is wrong, because after all we are not children arguing about right and wrong. Rather, we need a public that is free of murderers and so when people engage in antisocial behavior we remove them from the public. We don't remove someone for X years because we think they "deserve" to be removed for X year…

> Rather, we need a public that is free of murderers and so when people engage in antisocial behavior we remove them from the public.

Sure. There’s a wide gap between how Texas and Norway accomplish that.

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s something very odd to me about the modern progressive position that, more or less, if you can explain a crime, then you can in some sense excuse it. That description of his childhood works for me in sociological terms — let’s avoid stuff that we know to create monsters — but not on individual ones (i.e. the monster, having been created, is indeed a monster).

>There’s something very odd to me about the modern progressive position that, more or less, if you can explain a crime, then you can in some sense excuse it. I'm not following here. Who, specifically, is claiming that those who commit crimes shouldn't be held accountable (prosecuted, incarcerated, etc.) for those crimes because they had a rough childhood/suffered abuse/etc? Please do name names. As a mild example, ju…

>Seems like a good idea. But no one (AFAIK) is trying to "excuse" criminal behavior even as we try to understand the causes.

I think the knee jerk response would be about perspectives on poverty and class, but I think the more interesting response is that the criminal justice system already takes causes into account.

Provoked Crimes of Passion are treated differently than premeditated ones. Questions of mental capacity are relevant to sentencing. We have things like the twinkie defense and temporary insanity. We have Justified homicide due to self-defense.

In reality, the justice system almost always takes causes into account. Just not all causes. The interesting question is why some but not others.

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There’s something very odd to me about the modern progressive position that, more or less, if you can explain a crime, then you can in some sense excuse it. I'm not following here. Who, specifically, is claiming that those who commit crimes shouldn't be held accountable (prosecuted, incarcerated, etc.) for those crimes because they had a rough childhood/suffered abuse/etc? Please do name names. As a mild example, ju…

>Seems like a good idea. But no one (AFAIK) is trying to "excuse" criminal behavior even as we try to understand the causes. I think the knee jerk response would be about perspectives on poverty and class, but I think the more interesting response is that the criminal justice system already takes causes into account. Provoked Crimes of Passion are treated differently than premeditated ones. Questions of mental capaci…

>In reality, the justice system almost always takes causes into account. Just not all causes. The interesting question is why some but not others.

Absolutely. Circumstances are usually relevant and should be examined.

But GP[0] claimed that "progressives" argue that understanding the causes for the commission of crimes should "excuse" those actions.

Which is an unsupported assertion and I reject it because, at least AFAIK, no one takes that position.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34317453

Edit: Added the missing link, cleaned up prose.

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#237

“First I would like to say I have been here since September 2005. I had the honor and privilege to know many prison guards and staff. I want to thank all of them. I would like for everyone to write the people on death row as they are all good men and I am very happy I got to know them. All of their lives are worth knowing about. Secondly on February 14th the medical examiner and the chief nurse were engaged in numero…

For context, this speaker was convicted of raping, beating, and murdering a pregnant woman and a teenage girl. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosendo_Rodriguez

[deleted]

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#238

Too bad we can't get the last words from many of their victims.

It's nice to know that in some small way we may actually be morally superior to the people we're executing. But I'm not totally convinced.

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#239

Hard to reconcile some of these last words with the reality of their crimes: Juxtapose: I was so glad to leave this world a better, more positive place. It’s not an easy life with all the negativities. ... I hope I left everyone a plate of food full of happy memories, happiness and no sadness. [0] With this: > On September 11, 1999, Jones murdered his great aunt, 83-year-old Berthena Bryant, bludgeoning her to death…

Hasn't the Innocence Project saved a non-trivial amount of people from death row?

The sad thing is a percentage of these last words are made by innocent people. The US justice system isn't perfect, not even close.

Re: Texas Records All Inmates Last Words Before Execution And Puts Them All Online

#240
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find it funny at all. Bureaucracies use that type of excuse all the time to justify piling on additional cruelties. In Florida, inmates may no longer receive mail. No love letters. No Christmas cards. Nothing. FDOC claim it's because some prisoner's mail might have had "drugs" in it. That's the excuse anyway. As of last year, no prisoners in Florida may receive mail from loved ones anymore. Insanity is what I…

> In Florida, inmates may no longer receive mail. This isn't true. You can still send letters to inmates in Florida. The letters are digitized and a copy given to the inmate, rather than the original paper. It seems reasonable to me. Other states have already done similar, but I'm not surprised that Florida gets singled out for the flogging.

Wow, that is dehumanizing. This is the kind of thing that really drives home our Puritan roots. It's like we've decided that merely locking people behind bars isn't good enough, we need to make sure that every moment is hell.
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