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I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

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Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#301
post #42

Seems like the case of wealth that cannot be hidden from one's circles (and the outside world) due to him being so well known as a person in tech at the time of Doom's cultural zenith and being in the news cycle so often. I wonder if most often the smart move is to make sure that one's sudden acquisition of wealth (say the sale of a startup-now-a-successful-scaleup) is hidden from one's even closest circles to avoid…

You can also just say "no." Presumably Carmack has learned that lesson now.

The vibe I got from Carmack after reading Masters of Doom recently is that he's never had a big focus on money. When they struck it rich he certainly divulged himself in a few luxuries - going a bit more extravagant on his nerdy hobbies, decking out a Ferrari, building rockets. But he still seemed to mostly just want to do his programming work, and that seems to be what he's continued to do after all these years. So it doesn't entirely surprise me he was willing to be generous with his money like that.

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#302
This post and the comments remind me of this old mocking tweet [1] equating techy rationalists to quokka

> The quokka is a meme animal that lives on Bald Island on the SW coast of Australia, where it has no natural predators. If you visit this island, it will fearlessly walk up and try to hug you..........The quokka, like the rationalist, is a creature marked by profound innocence. The quokka can't imagine you might eat it, and the rationalist can't imagine you might deceive him. As long they stay on their islands, they survive, but both species have problems if a human shows up.

Among my peers, a contractless intangible favor weighs far heavier than one signed on paper with a $$-sign associated with it. That I'd offer/accept such a favor from someone not in my close group of 'people who would uproot their lives for me' is unthinkable. It is a double edged sword. Good faith and high trust societies allow for frictionless societies, but only because betraying that trust has very high social (and sometimes legal) costs. But at some-point, if it is truly no-strings-attached, you're just naïve & gullible. You're letting yourself be taken advantage of, and your naivete is actively working towards the future destruction of the high trust society.

________

People should stop trying to be selfless. It is possible to convince/delude your conscious into believing that you are being selfless. But enough unreciprocated favors make you jaded in the subconscious. It is an unhealthy festering that goes on, until a person finds values that sit well with both the conscious and the subconscious.

Invest in people (monetarily or as a relationship) directly. That way, if things go south, you can blame your intuition for picking (human) stocks, rather than resenting the person who failed despite their best efforts. Ask for reciprocation in intangibles (look after my kids, teach me a skill, be my emotional shoulder, let me crash anytime) they can easily give. That way, you are almost paying for a service more so than giving an unprotected loan.

My experience comes from living in joint-family style Asian relationships. They go above and beyond for members of the family who are struggling, but never properly communicate the nature of the unspoken interest that this help entails. So the helped person ends up in a situation where they don't know if they can ever say 'No' to those who helped them at a rough time. It also means that if the helped person isn't reciprocating in (the unspoken) kind, then they get slandered as being selfish, while simultaneously not knowing what is expected from them in the first place. Don't make your friends read your mind. Sign a contract (socially or legally) make the stakes clear to everyone. Life is a lot easier that way.

Paradoxically, Being aware of the transactional nature of relationships, helps structure transactions where favors don't impose an unseen burden on the counterpart in the relationship. In a weird way, being more selfish, is the best way to be selfless.

[1] https://twitter.com/0x49fa98/status/1276138147521400833 (Ignore the rest of the tweet, it goes off the rails pretty fast)

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only for your edification, as your English is 1/0 (infinitely) better than my Polish. I believe you meant "lending / lent" in place of "borrowing / borrowed." We separate the words, so "to borrow" is to temporarily take the item, "to lend" is to temporarily give the item.

True but in some parts of the uk (north/midlands) 'lend' can mean borrow. As kids I'd be asked by someone at school 'can I lend your pencil?' (= can I borrow your pencil). Dunno if they use that any more though. Was decades ago.

It can go both ways as slang. I've got one friend and one relative, both in London their whole lives, who'll say "can you borrow me (something they want)".

I actually don't think I've ever heard a native English (as a first language) speaker do it the way you recall - using lend when they mean borrow - I wonder if that's just coincidence, or if one way is more common up north and the other down south?

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#304
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would telling them to go fuck themselves not be cheaper and easier? Edit: I don’t have fuck you money, so I am actually ignorant of the dynamic you’re describing. I’d rather be known as an asshole with backbone than a rich sap though. One of those looks more like a mark than the other.

Its better to not focus on the amounts, as everyone has "fuck you money" at some level. I see it as something that scales based on your financial state. Surely you've spent some amount of money on frivolity.

In my mind, "Fuck you money" is not just "money spent on frivolity"

"Fuck you money" is "I could afford to burn every professional and personal bridge that exists in my life and still be fine"

As in, you can afford to say "Fuck you" to the entire world if you wanted to.

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#305

The reality is that the world is full of shitty people. There is an easy way to find the majority of them. They ask/want to borrow money from non official lenders. Think about it. Most people on HN how many paths would you have to go down first before you would borrow money from an individual? I'm guessing several options would be tried first. The reason those people are shitty is they already burnt all those options…

This doesn't seem like a fair characterization at all. Any other path towards borrowing money could potentially lead to getting buried even further in debt, and if an exhorbitant amount of interest is charged, could lead to a debt spiral that's really hard to get out of.

On the other hand, asking for money from a close friend means 0% interest, and an implied forgiveness in case it's not able to get repaid. That sounds like a much better option to me (of course, depends heavily on your relationship with your friends, etc.).

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#306

Everyone should read “Timon of Athens” - some say Shakespeare’s worst, but it’s my favorite. Whenever I think about lending, or asking for a loan or help (I am terribly short on money and very sad about it) - I remember this story.

I've never read it or seen it performed. So I read the synopsis in Wikipedia; it's such a desperately sad story I can't imagine having it as a favourite however well done it might be. The synopsis reads almost as though written by Sophocles two thousand years earlier.

Yeah. I think that’s the inspiration of the character, but the play, in my “new to Shakespeare” mind, is well done.

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#307
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Spanish they are the same word also -- "alquilar" -- "to rent" and "to rent out". Do any linguistics geeks reading have a word I can google for this phenomenon? That is, a word that means something like "a word or phrase that is bidirectional in one language but part of a unidirectional pair in another"

I don't have an answer but English LOVES preposition-attached verbs. You can use lent and borrowed in both directions (I lent X to him; he lent X to me -- I borrowed X from him; he borrowed X from me) so the main difference is not in whether the verbs can be used bidirectionally, but in how you indicate the direction. I suspect Spanish (and maybe Polish) disambiguate in different ways, but disambiguate I'm sure they…

English doesn’t have noun cases, so we have to use prepositions and word order to disambiguate.

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bronx Tale strategy: https://youtu.be/78-4RobJQ0Y

On the other hand, now everyone thinks you're an easy target to borrow money from, and they won't have to pay you back.

How many randoms do you envision coming up to them to ask for money?

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#309

I loan money to people and never expect to be repaid. If someone asks for $2k I give them $5k. $400 give them $1k. Sometimes I get paid back. Usually not. It’s because people are aware I have money so various people ask. The goal isn’t to get paid back. Often these acquaintances cut off all contact. The goal is to never be asked for money again and slowly bled out by frequent sob stories. If they know they are alread…

Can I have $2k

Stay classy HN

Re: I went through a period where I loaned money to anyone that asked me

#310

Years ago, I had the crazy/stupid opportunity to start a night club in San Francisco. My dad said it would be a terrible idea, the business was hard, etc... but he also said he would help me out. Go dad, I'm lucky to have him. He had a piece of property that we could get a loan against, so we found a mortgage company that would give us the loan and went ahead. Well, he was totally right, after years of trying, the bu…

Reminds me of how Jamie Zawinski (jwz), the creator of Netscape Navigator and Mozilla, has been struggling to keep DNA Lounge in SF afloat for a couple decades. Dude could've been obscenely rich, but his personality isn't for that and it's obviously a tough passion project.
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