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Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

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Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [1]: https://www.slideshare.net/dberkholz/assholes-are-killing-yo ... This is the kind of thing I'm asking about. Lots of numbers are trotted out but where's the actual data? Where's the methodology? The blurb says, "This talk will teach you, using quantified data and academic research from the social sciences, about the dramatic impact assholes are having on your organization today and how you can begin to repair…

No one considers it a good option. It's usually the last option, done after a fair bit of mediation to try and improve the assholes behavior. Only when it's clear that they can't or won't do you ban.

> Only when it's clear that they can't or won't do you ban.

I'm saying that's still not a reasonable measure even in that case. Why not an exponential backoff, where the first measure is that they only get one post a day. If they want to be heard they have to be more careful in how they word things and they have more time to think about how it might be received. If they transgress again, then it's upped to every three days, then once a week, then once every other week, and so on. A total ban is the limit of this more nuanced process.

No doubt this feature doesn't exist, so I'm suggesting something like this should be added because I'm not at all a fan of bans. Even this is a stopgap measure used to manage assholes because we don't yet understand what's at the root of asshole behaviour.

Edit: to clarify, I mean the backoff/retry strategy is still not ideal, but an easy first attempt at trying to reframe this as a problem we can maybe address using programming abstractions to inhibit rather than facilitate communication. Most software is focused on reducing barriers to communication, which is why banning is the only recourse, but in cases like this you obviously want to raise barriers to communication in controlled ways so you don't have use the ban hammer.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#193
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per blogpost: > git clone requests with a GoModuleMirror User-Agent will receive a 429 So only one counter seems to be needed. Sure, it's doing work for an adversarial party, but it's not much extra work either.

But since it looks like the proxy fleet is made of a large set of nodes and each one of them only keeps track of their own state, if sourcehut were to only keep one counter for the whole user-agent it would lead to a large number of nodes not being able to refresh their cache for potentially long periods of time (there's nothing that would guarantee for example that it's always a new node that gets to make the one re…

And to add a cherry on top, the only reason a single user-agent counter is even a possibility to discuss is because Drew made the Go team put a unique user-agent on the proxy in the early stage of this issue report.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#194
post #13
post #8

I feel like Drew has been in a pissing match with the Go team for a while so this outcome doesnt surprise me. I love Go but not Google's stewardship of it. The tracking proxy, Russ' takeover / squash of the package management work, the weird silence / stonewalling on other community issues... Drew has a valid complaint. I hate to hear he was banned from the issue tracker but that sounds about right. As a sibling said…

Have to agree in as much banning people with legitimate issues is unhelpful. I was also taken aback when Peter Bourgon, a great programmer and contributor to the go ecosystem was banned from all go channels.

Why does the Go team ban so many people? Doesn't sound like a healthy community.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#195
post #76

> Perform a shallow git clone rather than a full git clone; or, ideally, store the last seen commit hash for each reference and only fetch if it has been updated. I'd be interested to understand why that solution hasn't been implemented yet.

From the github issue,

"it would be a fair bit of extra work for us to read robots.txt", so clearly tracking commit hashes would be even more work.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#196
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to agree in as much banning people with legitimate issues is unhelpful. I was also taken aback when Peter Bourgon, a great programmer and contributor to the go ecosystem was banned from all go channels.

> I was also taken aback when Peter Bourgon, a great programmer and contributor to the go ecosystem was banned from all go channels. Bourgon was frequently helpful and great, but also frequently rude, condensing, dismissive, and generally just unpleasant. I've seen this countless of times first-hand on Slack, Reddit, and Lobsters. I specifically stopped interacting with him long before he was banned. Whether he's a g…

> No one liked how all of this turned out, but it did make the Go community a better place

Doubtful. Knowing that the Go team has a habit of ousting contributors because some feefees got hurt ensures that I'll never even consider trying to contribute.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did sourcehut not take the offer to be added to the refresh exclusion list like the other two small hosting providers did? It seems like that would have resolved this issue last year.

I wondered that too, but then I wondered if that's what sourcehut have actually done. I didn't notice any details about how go module mirror will be blocked. Wouldn't the effect on sourcehut users be identical?

[deleted]

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't write significant parts of their backend in a side project.

This is obviously untrue because we know that Google does write significant portions of its backend in Go and that Google derives ~0% of its revenue from Go (the very definition of a side project). My guess is that you're assuming that a side project for Google is the same as a side project for a lone developer or a small team, which is (pretty obviously, IMHO) untrue.

> that Google derives ~0% of its revenue from Go

AdWords is mainly written in Go. YoutTube is mainly written in Go. Just because they have strategic reasons for not directly monetizing Go doesn't make it a side project more than any other internal tooling.

It's core to their ability to pull in revenue now. If they were somehow immediately deprived access to Go, the company would go under. That's how you know it's not a side project.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#200
What's the value proposition of not using Github? Github is such an incredibly useful project. I actually go out of my way to avoid projects on Gitlab and co, just because I don't want to have to worry that it's going to just disappear one day because they thought they could out-build Microsoft.
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