I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books • Hacker News Board

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#181

Post by a3w » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #174

runjake wrote: post #125

I feel the opposite. I'm reading fewer non-fiction books and more articles and blog posts. Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book. A lot of the ideas presented in those books could be adequately presented in a 10th of the number of pages. A huge time-saver has been reading the article versions of stuff that has been turned into a book. Y…

I don’t know exactly when it happened, but nonfiction books have become 80% filler with a few dozen pages of worthwhile ideas. This didn’t use to be the case and if you read a popular book from say, 1910, they are often too information sense.

American non-fiction books seem to have a third dedicated to "the author is awesome and valid in this field, because he or she did this and that talk for this and that person". Very bloaty, indeed.

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#182

Post by allturtles » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

runjake wrote: post #125

I feel the opposite. I'm reading fewer non-fiction books and more articles and blog posts. Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book. A lot of the ideas presented in those books could be adequately presented in a 10th of the number of pages. A huge time-saver has been reading the article versions of stuff that has been turned into a book. Y…

> Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book.

This applies to many non-fiction best-sellers in the self-help and pop science categories, but is very unfair as a generalization about non-fiction. (And bloat is not restricted to non-fiction, either: do we really need 10,000 pages of Wheel of Time or Stormlight Archive?).

I'm looking at my bookshelves now and see great books like Ryan's "A Bridge Too Far," Peltzold's "Code", Hodges' "The Enigma," Koestler's "The Sleepwalkers," Churchill's "Marlborough." None of these feel "bloated" or "padded" (okay maybe "Marlborough" is a little bloated). None of them were written to convey a handful of ideas to make you look smart at a cocktail party. Surely the information in these books could be condensed, but that condensed form wouldn't produce the same experience.

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#183

Post by ckozlowski » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

allturtles wrote: post #182

runjake wrote: post #125

I feel the opposite. I'm reading fewer non-fiction books and more articles and blog posts. Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book. A lot of the ideas presented in those books could be adequately presented in a 10th of the number of pages. A huge time-saver has been reading the article versions of stuff that has been turned into a book. Y…

> Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book. This applies to many non-fiction best-sellers in the self-help and pop science categories, but is very unfair as a generalization about non-fiction. (And bloat is not restricted to non-fiction, either: do we really need 10,000 pages of Wheel of Time or Stormlight Archive?). I'm looking at my book…

Incidentally, I was given a copy of Peltzold's "Code", second edition (2022), for Christmas. I'd read the first many, many years ago. I'm looking forward to reading it again.

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#184

Post by briga » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

runjake wrote: post #125

I feel the opposite. I'm reading fewer non-fiction books and more articles and blog posts. Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book. A lot of the ideas presented in those books could be adequately presented in a 10th of the number of pages. A huge time-saver has been reading the article versions of stuff that has been turned into a book. Y…

I think you might be reading the wrong books. Admittedly many of the latest nonfiction books (especially tech books) are 90% fluff, but this is hardly universal

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#185

Post by CadmiumYellow » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

sibeliuss wrote: post #144

For me its easy: Sitting on the computer reading makes me feel depressed. Reading books makes me feel happy. And so I've gradually reduced my footprint on the internet to basically zero -- no social media, only a few sites (mostly HN) bookmarked -- in an effort to make the internet less of a thing. It's working. Sometimes I'm staring at my screen and I have no clue what to even do or where to go, and I close it and t…

Could not agree more. I also find that I don't retain information that I read on a screen but I retain information from print media quite well. I've started to wonder if memory relies heavily on additional senses, like touch, and sensory experiences that are almost entirely visual don't stick with us the same way. I can remember specific passages from books I read 15 years ago and I can even picture where they are on the page and how far they are into the book, whereas I can barely remember which articles I read on HN during work on Friday, let alone the content.

I become more convinced each day that online life is a shallow substitute for a human existence in so many small ways that will only become clear to us in retrospect.

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#186

Post by medvezhenok » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

w1nst0nsm1th wrote: post #106

medvezhenok wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two podcasts that I like, and pay monthly for both (more econ/macro/geopolitics-focused): The first does a lot of research for every episode, and the second has ~30 years of knowledge about markets, trading, and goes into such depth in his episodes that it's hard to find equivalent level information elsewhere. I also subscribed to Real Vision at some point, but I find that I simply don't have enough time to utilize a…

Seems to be financial letters subscription 'grift' remastered in podcast. Pass.

As someone who was/is in the circus world as well as software development, there are certain things that you can never learn without having access to the right people.

In circus, I had to travel to specific cities and work with specific coaches and pay them quite a premium to get access to the information that they knew - there is literally no alternative once you get to a high enough level.

My thoughts on the finance and geopolitics space is that there are some alternatives to the podcasts listed here, but they are really hard to find and aggregate and sort through all of the noise out there. I consider that a valuable enough service that I'm willing to pay and subscribe to the podcasts. I was also previously a subscriber to Lyn Alden's premium research service.

I like hearing what smart people have to say and I don't subscribe for "stock picks", so I'm not sure exactly why you would call this grift. It is a research service and almost like an auditory journal (is the Economist a grift too? the Financial Times?)

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#187

Post by operatingthetan » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #174

runjake wrote: post #125

I feel the opposite. I'm reading fewer non-fiction books and more articles and blog posts. Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book. A lot of the ideas presented in those books could be adequately presented in a 10th of the number of pages. A huge time-saver has been reading the article versions of stuff that has been turned into a book. Y…

I don’t know exactly when it happened, but nonfiction books have become 80% filler with a few dozen pages of worthwhile ideas. This didn’t use to be the case and if you read a popular book from say, 1910, they are often too information sense.

I agree, but I think some aspect of it is that we are presented the same facts as novel in each genre and if you've read one you've read them all. Whatever the case it's to the point where I quit nonfiction books quickly because I find them boring, where as I used to read them constantly when I was younger.

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#188

Post by distrill » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

runjake wrote: post #125

I feel the opposite. I'm reading fewer non-fiction books and more articles and blog posts. Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book. A lot of the ideas presented in those books could be adequately presented in a 10th of the number of pages. A huge time-saver has been reading the article versions of stuff that has been turned into a book. Y…

Books are also stuck in time. I like Ben Thompson's position here (Stratechery) - his ideas are moving so quickly that he doesn't want to have them stuck in time in a book. He publishes a lot of content and regularly goes back and posts updates to his ways of thinking. I guess you can approximate this with new book editions, but there will always be outdated published versions in circulation without updated context. Ben keeps old articles as they are but includes links to updated articles.

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#189

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

runjake wrote: post #125

I feel the opposite. I'm reading fewer non-fiction books and more articles and blog posts. Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book. A lot of the ideas presented in those books could be adequately presented in a 10th of the number of pages. A huge time-saver has been reading the article versions of stuff that has been turned into a book. Y…

> Non-fiction books are bloated with fluff to increase the page count to increase the perceived marketability of the book.

Is this really that rampant or different from SEO? Padding a book out with fluff has a cost. What's the cost to pad out an article with keywords or lengthen for SEO?

Re: I don't read web articles anymore, but I read books

#190

Post by sibeliuss » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 6:02 PM UTC

CadmiumYellow wrote: post #185

sibeliuss wrote: post #144

For me its easy: Sitting on the computer reading makes me feel depressed. Reading books makes me feel happy. And so I've gradually reduced my footprint on the internet to basically zero -- no social media, only a few sites (mostly HN) bookmarked -- in an effort to make the internet less of a thing. It's working. Sometimes I'm staring at my screen and I have no clue what to even do or where to go, and I close it and t…

Could not agree more. I also find that I don't retain information that I read on a screen but I retain information from print media quite well. I've started to wonder if memory relies heavily on additional senses, like touch, and sensory experiences that are almost entirely visual don't stick with us the same way. I can remember specific passages from books I read 15 years ago and I can even picture where they are on…

I think you're totally right that the tactile nature of holding books and flipping through pages reenforces things. I can't prove it, but I can second the observation!