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Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

sourcehut.org

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Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#151

Post by ddevault »

Spivak wrote: post #119
Tomte wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google should DDoS noone. Not everyone until they opt out.

But it’s not Google DDoSing them, it’s every user downloading packages. Without the proxy it would just be millions of users hammering their servers. Edit: Uh okay, if it's not user traffic then why wasn't the "don't background refresh" not an option?

That's not how the proxy works. The proxy automatically refreshes its cache extremely aggressively and independently of user interactions. The actual traffic volume generated by users running go get is a minute fraction of the total traffic.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#152

Post by rakoo »

psanford wrote: post #43
ComputerGuru wrote: post #18

From the GitHub issue, by a Googler: > For boring technical reasons, it would be a fair bit of extra work for us to read robots.txt […] This is coming from one of the biggest, richest, most well-staffed companies on the planet. It’s too much work for them to read a robots.txt file like the rest of the world (and plenty of one-man teams) do before hammering a server with terabytes of requests. If this is too much for…

Why did sourcehut not take the offer to be added to the refresh exclusion list like the other two small hosting providers did? It seems like that would have resolved this issue last year.

Why should you opt-in to a No-DDOS list ? Why is it not the default ?

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#153

Post by TeMPOraL »

65a wrote: post #147
tylersmith wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't notice any details about how go module mirror will be blocked. It says in the post they'll check the UserAgent for the Go proxy string and return a 429 code.

That's especially silly because 429 is a retriable error

Sure, but with it, the biggest impact will likely be... spam in logs on the Google side. Short-circuiting a request from a specific user agent to a 429 error code is cheap, compared to performing a full git clone instead.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#154

Post by alpaca128 »

simonw wrote: post #76

> Perform a shallow git clone rather than a full git clone; or, ideally, store the last seen commit hash for each reference and only fetch if it has been updated. I'd be interested to understand why that solution hasn't been implemented yet.

Because from Google's perspective everything works just fine.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#156

Post by adql »

Spivak wrote: post #119
Tomte wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google should DDoS noone. Not everyone until they opt out.

But it’s not Google DDoSing them, it’s every user downloading packages. Without the proxy it would just be millions of users hammering their servers. Edit: Uh okay, if it's not user traffic then why wasn't the "don't background refresh" not an option?

They wouldn't recommend users getting the data directly from them if the user traffic was the problem

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#157

Post by TeMPOraL »

monocasa wrote: post #130
throwaway894345 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Google staffs its Go team, but the original comment invokes Google's vast wealth as though its entire market cap is available for the development of Go, which is of course absurd. Google probably spends single-digit millions of dollars on Go annually, and it seems they've determined that supporting Drew's use case would require a nontrivial share of that budget which they feel could be spent to greater effect el…

They wouldn't write significant parts of their backend in a side project.

Not to mention, it's likely a quite impactful form of marketing / developer relations gain for them. I think so because when I talk to people who start to learn Go, I usually see a transfer of positive feelings and excitement from Go itself to Google as its creator/backer - one of the clearest examples of "halo effect" I've seen first-hand.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#158

Post by naasking »

Beltalowda wrote: post #128
naasking wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether he's a great programmer/contributor not isn't really important here. I don't see why not. Personalities fall on a broad spectrum. Still seems strange to me that the recent broad pushes for more inclusiveness, including neuro-atypicality, does not cover people that inconvenience you personally. > that would chase people out of the community with his behaviour [...] but it did make the Go community a better p…

> I've noticed that claims like this are never backed by any evidence of this improvement, or evidence of people who actually have been chased away by rudeness. I am one of them. I've seen other people claim the same. I did not keep a list, nor did I keep a list of all of his posts that I found egregious, and I don't really feel like spending a lot of time crawling through all posts to find them, so I guess this is a…

> [1]: https://www.slideshare.net/dberkholz/assholes-are-killing-yo...

This is the kind of thing I'm asking about. Lots of numbers are trotted out but where's the actual data? Where's the methodology?

The blurb says, "This talk will teach you, using quantified data and academic research from the social sciences, about the dramatic impact assholes are having on your organization today and how you can begin to repair it."

Social science research has a dramatically poor replication rate, so on that basis alone I'm skeptical of the numbers even if he did interpret them correctly.

That said, I agree asshole behaviour has to be reigned in, but exile is pretty dramatic if you really think about it. It's super easy and I think that's why people do it, but that doesn't make it good option.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#159

Post by CJefferson »

naasking wrote: post #84
Beltalowda wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was also taken aback when Peter Bourgon, a great programmer and contributor to the go ecosystem was banned from all go channels. Bourgon was frequently helpful and great, but also frequently rude, condensing, dismissive, and generally just unpleasant. I've seen this countless of times first-hand on Slack, Reddit, and Lobsters. I specifically stopped interacting with him long before he was banned. Whether he's a g…

> Whether he's a great programmer/contributor not isn't really important here. I don't see why not. Personalities fall on a broad spectrum. Still seems strange to me that the recent broad pushes for more inclusiveness, including neuro-atypicality, does not cover people that inconvenience you personally. > that would chase people out of the community with his behaviour [...] but it did make the Go community a better p…

I left various projects due to rudeness. I joined other projects as they felt welcoming.

In my (limited) experience, naming projects you left due to rudeness or bad behaviour tends to lead to that bad behaviour noticing your message and pestering you with questions about exactly why you left, and arguing that you are being unreasonable -- which is why I'm not naming those projects.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#160

Post by ddevault »

Beltalowda wrote: post #79
Semaphor wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And he also ranted about how people were all a bunch of morons. I don't blame anyone for getting tired of that. Do you have a source?

https://github.com/golang/go/issues/30141#issuecomment-46427... I don't have a full list of all posts at hand (some of which may be removed), but I've seen some other similar stuff as well; it's not an isolated incident. I was reading through the previous thread on this issue (goproxy sending loads of requests) and this one was posted as an example there.

I was indeed in the wrong when I made this comment four years ago. I have since apologized for it. I don't intend to re-litigate anything on HN at this point, but I have good reason to believe that this incident is unrelated to the reason I am presently banned.

The linked comment was indeed out of line, and perhaps you feel justified in thinking that it should be sufficient grounds for a permanent expulsion from the community. I won't argue with that, fair enough. However, I don't think it's reasonable to use it as grounds to suggest that anyone should have their servers DoSed by Google with no recourse, and I think blocking Google is a reasonable move given two years of inaction from the Go team to resolve the issue.

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