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Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

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Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#111

Post by mekoka »

Thaxll wrote: post #14
xenophonf wrote: post #11

This: > I was banned from the Go issue tracker without explanation, and was unable to continue discussing the problem with Google. is completely asinine. But it's also par for the course when it comes to interacting with Google. When is anyone going to hold them to account for their terrible customer service and community interaction?

It's one side of the story. I don't think he was banned for no reasons.

https://drewdevault.com/2022/05/25/Google-has-been-DDoSing-s...

> I was banned from the Go issue tracker for mysterious reasons [ In violation of Go’s own Code of Conduct, by the way, which requires that participants are notified moderator actions against them and given the opportunity to appeal. I happen to be well versed in Go’s CoC given that I was banned once before without notice — a ban which was later overturned on the grounds that the moderator was wrong in the first place. Great community, guys. ]

When a story has two sides and one party chooses to keep silent when accused, I tend to favor the accuser.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#112

Post by lanstin »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #42
brnt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like they could also let one request per hour through, say, and then serve up the rest a 429. Users trying to clone their project would hit an almost certainly up to date Google cache and thus be happy and sr.ht save on pretty much all that traffic and thus be also happy.

I like this because it feels like malicious compliance and it would allow Google to seemlessly continue working should Google figure out their caching situation. Plus it uses a rarely used HTTP status. Love it.

I have seen more 429, almost all from large cloud providers, a fair amount in the last 5 years. Never before then, I was used to making rate limiting an in-band part of the API explicitly. AWS S3 will give you 429s before giving you 503s when you hit it with a go program touching every object or every version in a giant bucket from a 56 core machine and a few hundred Go routine workers. It is a good signal: if you do exponential back off per worker on the 429s, you won’t see the 503s.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#113

Post by psanford »

luckylion wrote: post #101
psanford wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If some open source maintainer goes off the rails and deletes all their packages, why should that break my builds? I still have a valid license to the code, I don't really care that a maintainer rage quit 4 dependencies down from my application. I certainly don't want to have to scramble to deal with that.

Do they change the behavior if the repo was dropped for legal issues, and no valid licenses could have been obtained because the repo owner didn't have one in the first place?

The go proxy won't save modules that don't have a permissive license.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#114

Post by morelisp »

wwarner wrote: post #98
Beltalowda wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was also taken aback when Peter Bourgon, a great programmer and contributor to the go ecosystem was banned from all go channels. Bourgon was frequently helpful and great, but also frequently rude, condensing, dismissive, and generally just unpleasant. I've seen this countless of times first-hand on Slack, Reddit, and Lobsters. I specifically stopped interacting with him long before he was banned. Whether he's a g…

I dunno, aren't people a bunch of morons when you really get down to it? Like, isn't that a legitimate complaint too? > Whether he's a great programmer/contributor not isn't really important here. I'd make a distinction here between having a reputation as a great contributor and having something important and correct to say in a given exchange. No, a community shouldn't put up with a person with a great reputation (o…

> I dunno, aren't people a bunch of morons when you really get down to it? Like, isn't that a legitimate complaint too?

It's still unproductive to say that in a community support space.

Who's the bigger moron, the moron or the guy holding a public grudge for over a year about how unfair it is they're not letting him in the channel full of morons?

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#115

Post by dcow »

Semaphor wrote: post #82
Beltalowda wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/golang/go/issues/30141#issuecomment-46427... I don't have a full list of all posts at hand (some of which may be removed), but I've seen some other similar stuff as well; it's not an isolated incident. I was reading through the previous thread on this issue (goproxy sending loads of requests) and this one was posted as an example there.

Thanks, that is indeed not the greatest of comments.

[flagged]

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#116

Post by yamtaddle »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #109
nouveaux wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go since inception has always been well funded. It is authored by some of the biggest names in programming and they are on staff at Google. This is not a side hobby. Not sure why you're suggesting that Go is lacking in resources.

Yes, Google staffs its Go team, but the original comment invokes Google's vast wealth as though its entire market cap is available for the development of Go, which is of course absurd. Google probably spends single-digit millions of dollars on Go annually, and it seems they've determined that supporting Drew's use case would require a nontrivial share of that budget which they feel could be spent to greater effect el…

Knowing that "we only have a few million in funding per year" was a valid excuse for generating abusive traffic and refusing to do anything about it, would definitely have changed a few conversations I've had working at startups. Interesting.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#117

Post by lanstin »

wwarner wrote: post #98
Beltalowda wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was also taken aback when Peter Bourgon, a great programmer and contributor to the go ecosystem was banned from all go channels. Bourgon was frequently helpful and great, but also frequently rude, condensing, dismissive, and generally just unpleasant. I've seen this countless of times first-hand on Slack, Reddit, and Lobsters. I specifically stopped interacting with him long before he was banned. Whether he's a g…

I dunno, aren't people a bunch of morons when you really get down to it? Like, isn't that a legitimate complaint too? > Whether he's a great programmer/contributor not isn't really important here. I'd make a distinction here between having a reputation as a great contributor and having something important and correct to say in a given exchange. No, a community shouldn't put up with a person with a great reputation (o…

It is true but usually not useful to say. Start with the assumption he 80% of everything is crap and be happy about the exceptions but not really fussed at the crap. If you can’t do do these things, you lack the merit needed to work with others. You can always go off alone and do excellent stuff.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#118

Post by treis »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #63
ComputerGuru wrote: post #18

From the GitHub issue, by a Googler: > For boring technical reasons, it would be a fair bit of extra work for us to read robots.txt […] This is coming from one of the biggest, richest, most well-staffed companies on the planet. It’s too much work for them to read a robots.txt file like the rest of the world (and plenty of one-man teams) do before hammering a server with terabytes of requests. If this is too much for…

I don't have any particular affinity for Google, but they're still a business and they're already developing the Go language (and relevant infrastructure) at their own expense. It's not like the Go team at Google has access to the entire Alphabet war chest like your "biggest, richest, well-staffed companies on the planet" suggests.

But this isn't one of those "we developed fast and did dumb stuff". They put significant effort into doing something dumb.

Re: Sourcehut will blacklist the Go module mirror

#119

Post by Spivak »

Tomte wrote: post #77
psanford wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The Go team offered to add sourcehat to a list that would stop background refreshes. It would still allow fetches initiated by end users. The change sourcehat is making is to break end users unless they set some environment variables. I've not seen any explanation about why the solution offered by the Go team was unacceptable. Its weird that that is completely left out of the blog post here.

I think Google should DDoS noone. Not everyone until they opt out.

But it’s not Google DDoSing them, it’s every user downloading packages. Without the proxy it would just be millions of users hammering their servers.

Edit: Uh okay, if it's not user traffic then why wasn't the "don't background refresh" not an option?

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