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Tetris is capable of universal computation

meatfighter.com

21–30 of 79 posts

Re: Tetris is capable of universal computation

#21
post #3

As for Tetris storage, see also: Harder Drives - https://youtu.be/JcJSW7Rprio The Tetris part starts at 15:00, but I'd highly recommend watching it all.

Suckerpinch is one of the best youtube channels out there, I love his work. I came here to link this once I saw the title, but you've already done it! He reminds me of what Forth people get so excited about, fitting so much into such small places.

I'm out of the loop, mind sharing a link to what you're talking about?

Re: Tetris is capable of universal computation

#22

It seems like I quite often see posts here about how $thing$ can perform universal computation, or simulate a UTM, or whatever. And obviously the HN readership selects for these articles. But is there any significance to be found in all these things having this attribute? Does it tell us anything about the universality of computation as a property of the universe? I seem to recall that sed and C++ template installati…

"Does it tell us anything about the universality of computation as a property of the universe?"

It tells us that computation is counter-intuitively easy to access. Our intuition says that computers are hard; look how hard they are for us to build, after all! But instead the reality is that if you try to exclude computation from a non-trivial system, it's actually fairly hard.

(I think part of this intuition may also be based on our intuitive experience mostly being with von Neumann machines. Contra some other contrarians, I think we work with them for a good reason; as wild as they can be, they are much tamer than many other systems capable of universal computation. Compare with trying to work in Rule 110 directly as our primary computation method, or cellular automata in general. Many of these accidental TC systems are very strange and would be hard to work with. Getting a universal computation system nice and friendly to humans accidentally is pretty hard. Getting a universal computation system without that qualification is like falling off a bike.)

https://www.gwern.net/Turing-complete is a good overview both of this concept, and includes many interesting consequences. I also particularly recommend the section title "Security Implications".

Re: Tetris is capable of universal computation

#23
post #3

As for Tetris storage, see also: Harder Drives - https://youtu.be/JcJSW7Rprio The Tetris part starts at 15:00, but I'd highly recommend watching it all.

Suckerpinch is one of the best youtube channels out there, I love his work. I came here to link this once I saw the title, but you've already done it! He reminds me of what Forth people get so excited about, fitting so much into such small places.

If you like his stuff you should check out the sigbovik proceedings each year. Most of his videos are about his papers there and he has even more papers he doesn't make videos about! I don't think anybody else is making papers as interesting as his (about half are just jokes with no real content) but there are other gems of a similar "work hard on a fundamentally silly problem" vein.

Re: Tetris is capable of universal computation

#24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But is there any significance to be found in all these things having this attribute? Is there any significance of a beautiful painting of a magnificent sunset over mountain meadow with horses grazing?

> Is there any significance of a beautiful painting of a magnificent sunset over mountain meadow with horses grazing? Yes, but it was designed that way. By a person. For other people. Its unlikely to be perceived as "beautiful" by a whale or an oak tree or whatever. But if things that weren't designed to do computation, or even designed at all, nevertheless appear to be capable of it, what does that tell us about com…

I don't think it needs to tell us anything about computation. It can be just a fun thing to do. We've got decades of "surprise this is Turing Complete" results. One more doesn't tell us anything about computation. But it's still fun!

Think of it like writing a quine in some weird language or something. We already know it can be done. But it is still cool!

Re: Tetris is capable of universal computation

#25

the claim is that this is theoretically possible in stock tetris with only one modification: an infinite board (with a floor). the infinite board solves piece randomization, because you can have a "junkyard" where you dump pieces until you get the one you want. it also solves the time pressure, because blocks spawned at row inifinity will never reach the canvas until you hard-drop them. finally, it prevents rows from…

NES tetris has a RNG that can be manipulated so you always get the piece you want as long as you never need duplicates. You don't even need a junkyard.

Re: Tetris is capable of universal computation

#26

the claim is that this is theoretically possible in stock tetris with only one modification: an infinite board (with a floor). the infinite board solves piece randomization, because you can have a "junkyard" where you dump pieces until you get the one you want. it also solves the time pressure, because blocks spawned at row inifinity will never reach the canvas until you hard-drop them. finally, it prevents rows from…

NES tetris has a RNG that can be manipulated so you always get the piece you want as long as you never need duplicates. You don't even need a junkyard.

interesting! unfortunately the board would be too small to build more than one or two gates before you start to run into row clearing and the ceiling.

edit: is this your article? thank you for the wonderful post!

Re: Tetris is capable of universal computation

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NES tetris has a RNG that can be manipulated so you always get the piece you want as long as you never need duplicates. You don't even need a junkyard.

interesting! unfortunately the board would be too small to build more than one or two gates before you start to run into row clearing and the ceiling. edit: is this your article? thank you for the wonderful post!

No it is not my article. I just know weird things from other articles I also didn't write involving doing weird stuff with NES tetris.
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