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‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

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41–50 of 474 posts

Re: ‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

#41
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and the more we try to legislate away any possible source of danger we might encounter in our day-to-day lives, the less prepared we will be for places where nature is left to fend for itself.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me as an argument. "We need to keep life more dangerous in general so that when we hit special cases it'll be easier to deal with" strikes me as generally doing more harm than good because our day to day is going to cause more harm and those special cases are always going to be special. Unless you have specific examples that you're thinking of here.

I see it as more of a vicious cycle.

The "don't put this plastic bag on your mouth" warnings come about because the public supports those laws/cases. Those people are at the point were they rely on other to be responsible for them rather than using common sense. Those laws/cases create an environment where people come to expect warnings for everything rather than rely on their own common sense.

I do think you're right that day to life would cause more harm without any warnings, at least for certain people. The people who are responsible for themselves are generally going to be ok in either situation. The people who are happy-go-lucky and rely on others to think for them and arlt high risk in either situation, sometimes regardless of if warnings are present.

Re: ‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

#42

Some tips on where to begin to learn more about nature and survive in the wild? Maybe an REI class? I'm a little embarrassed to admit that should I ever venture out into the wilderness, I would definitely not survive. I lack basic survival skills and nature would eat me alive. That being said, I always admired folks who could go camping for days (or weeks), who could cook up a warm (and edible) meal over a campfire.

Honestly the three things you can do easily:

1. Only go deep into nature (out of cell range) with someone experienced.

2. Obtain a rescue device (Apple satellite cell, Garmin GPS emergency beacon, etc).

3. If stranded in a vehicle stay with the vehicle!

Re: ‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

#43

Drowning is the leading cause of death in national parks and recreation areas. It's scary how powerful water is.

A great example of this just down the road from me is The Strid: https://the-yorkshireman.com/the-strid/ (ignore the hyperbole title) Looks entirely harmless but is incredibly dangerous in some parts. Apparently the river "turns on it's side" creating a narrow but very deep stream with very fast underwater currents.

There was a good discussion about this a few months ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32933603

Re: ‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

#44
post #4

Do your research before getting into rivers. My local river has several gauges and hotlines you can call to get dam releases. They also have a chart of the water release amounts and if you could paddle/float/canoe/kayak etc. It even has a turbidity gauge that will show you if any harmful bacteria is present, we have issues with fertilizer runoff and e-coli. It's a rather mundane river in an area not as known as Glaci…

Acquaintance did some suburban kayaking and didn't see a 3ft drop (some kind of dam or culvert under a bridge) until too late. The fluid mechanics of that drop are such that there is a vortex at the base that makes it difficult to get out. He was able to stand but just barely - scary to think how close a call that was in a pretty innocuous looking setting.

Back in the 1980s, a number of soldiers drowned in the hydraulic below the dam at the Little Falls pumping station on the Potomac. One of Tufte's books (I think Envisioning Information) includes the illustration of the effect that The Washington Post published shortly after that.

Re: ‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

#45
post #4

Do your research before getting into rivers. My local river has several gauges and hotlines you can call to get dam releases. They also have a chart of the water release amounts and if you could paddle/float/canoe/kayak etc. It even has a turbidity gauge that will show you if any harmful bacteria is present, we have issues with fertilizer runoff and e-coli. It's a rather mundane river in an area not as known as Glaci…

Acquaintance did some suburban kayaking and didn't see a 3ft drop (some kind of dam or culvert under a bridge) until too late. The fluid mechanics of that drop are such that there is a vortex at the base that makes it difficult to get out. He was able to stand but just barely - scary to think how close a call that was in a pretty innocuous looking setting.

Those are called "weirs", and often known as drowning machines. Practical Engineering on youtube has a great video about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkR79oDAgOg&vl=en

Re: ‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

#46
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me as an argument. "We need to keep life more dangerous in general so that when we hit special cases it'll be easier to deal with" strikes me as generally doing more harm than good because our day to day is going to cause more harm and those special cases are always going to be special. Unless you have specific examples that you're thinking of here.

I see it as more of a vicious cycle. The "don't put this plastic bag on your mouth" warnings come about because the public supports those laws/cases. Those people are at the point were they rely on other to be responsible for them rather than using common sense. Those laws/cases create an environment where people come to expect warnings for everything rather than rely on their own common sense. I do think you're righ…

Are those warning labels there because they've been proven to be effective, or because someone sued and that's their way to mitigate that? I have a problem visualizing the venn diagram of people who are so stupid they'll put the bag in their mouth but also people who will listen to the words written on said bag.

Re: ‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

#48
One time, I was driving at night in the Sierra after a storm - roads were covered in snow. It's a drive I've made close to 100 times without incident. Going around a bend, I saw a car in the ditch on the outside of the curve. I stopped the car, put on the hazards, and went to see if there was anyone in the car.

As I was about to cross the highway a car come sliding around the bend more or less sideways. I stopped and watched it slide past. I could tell it was going to miss me by 10 feet or more, but afterward I couldn't stop thinking: What if it had been headed towards me? Could I have gotten out of the way in time? What if I'd slipped? I couldn't believe how close I might have come to dying without even thinking about it. I'll never get out of the car in a storm again, at least not without thinking very carefully about the situation first.

My other near miss experience was staying at a bread-and-breakfast farmhouse in Portugal. I had taken a shower, and was standing in front of the bathroom mirror, when I noticed the light above the mirror was crooked. It was one of those swiveling can fixtures, so I reached up to adjust it. I knew it wouldn't be hot since I'd just turned it on, so I grabbed it firmly and then asked myself why it was vibrating. And for that matter why was my whole arm vibrating? When I realized I was being shocked I was able to let go and spent 20 minutes pacing around my room making sure I wasn't dead. You really can't do worse than standing barefoot, soaking wet, on a stone floor, and grabbing a live fixture, can you?

If anyone would like to explain why that didn't kill me I'm all ears.

Re: ‘That girl is going to get herself killed’ (2022)

#49

Some tips on where to begin to learn more about nature and survive in the wild? Maybe an REI class? I'm a little embarrassed to admit that should I ever venture out into the wilderness, I would definitely not survive. I lack basic survival skills and nature would eat me alive. That being said, I always admired folks who could go camping for days (or weeks), who could cook up a warm (and edible) meal over a campfire.

The first thing to learn is to have respect for the harsh reality of the environment. You’d be surprised how many people get killed because they don’t (looking at you Christopher McCandless). So your awareness itself is already a good start.

I don't understand why McCandless was idolized (I do know there was backlash from actual knowledgeable people, like park rangers). He purposefully put himself in harm's way and didn't have any relevant skills that would have helped him survive. So what's admirable or romantic about the way he died?
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