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Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

wsj.com

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Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#101

Post by rkangel »

causi wrote: post #25
userbinator wrote: post #20

Seeing "to allow" and "their own" being used in that way in the title is a disturbingly dystopian sign of the times. I don't think things like this should ever need to be explicitly allowed, in much the same way as one does not need permission for many other things which are naturally assumed to be so. For contrast: "Government to allow people to use their own brains."

Hell If I had my way I'd add a "right to root" in the Constitution itself. You should have control over your hardware, period.

While I philosophically agree, I struggle to reconcile it with some other practicalities. I (mostly) design and build radio systems, and as the manufacturer it is our job to ensure that it is a well behaved radio system - transmits in the frequency bands it's meant to, at the power it's meant to, without leaking and interfering with other things. For a consumer product, where much of the radio implementation is in some form of software, how do I ensure that the system continues to meet the rules?

You could argue that any changes to the software are then the fault of the user, which is a reasonable point of view. But what if someone comes up with a mod that makes your wifi better by breaking transmit power rules (at the expense of others). Lots of people might use it, and then there are resulting widespread interference problems. Difficult to identify culprits, possibly too many to prosecute etc.

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#102

Post by Swenrekcah »

themitigating wrote: post #87
29athrowaway wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The damage is already done. MBAs had no long-term vision, so in each company they infested, they made poor strategic decisions such as moving manufacturing overseas, which then forced other companies to move their manufacturing overseas. The countries they chose have zero respect for intellectual property. So now what's left are zombie companies milking their cash cows dry as international competitors arise and take…

The goal of any business is to make money, it's why they exist. Moving production overseas saves money. I don't see why this has anything to do with MBAs

Some people think:

“My goal is to make money”

Other people think:

“I need to make some money to achieve my goal”

There are plenty of people from the second category that run businesses, but probably more from the first though.

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#103

Post by mikrotikker »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #92
Melting_Harps wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Short term profit at the expense of everything else. At some point there will be a reckoning on all the damage this cult has done to society, but I don't expect it to happen any time soon. I can't see how, the same people pushing for WTO/NAFTA are those who profited immensely from outsourcing in the 80s-90s are now the same one who likely stand to benefit the most from either supply chain disruptions, and war. The…

> MBAs making supply chains inherently fragile and over who valued BS things like JIT are just reflecting what is most rewarded in the corpo culture: Also reflected in what is most rewarded by consumers: lower prices. No business was ever going to thrive selling US manufactured goods at a significant price premium compared to non US manufactured goods.

I dunno I'm currently trying to boycott Chinese made goods, regardless the cost. I'm in the position to be able to do that but so are many others.

It's like they're targeting the lowest common denominator.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy right? If the manufacturing was internal to the US say, theres more jobs hence better economy hence people are able too afford those locally prepared goods.

That probably requires a united front against outsourcing though. It's almost as if globalism breeds poverty, and is just a way for megacorps to milk us of our cash. Totally removed from any kind of social responsibility.

They sure love to change their logos to a rainbow and call that social responsibility though. Like Nike shipping you a keychain of all the micro plastics produced during the manufacturing of those shoes you just bought as if making you deal with their waste is environmental responsibility.

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#104

Post by lotsofpulp »

mikrotikker wrote: post #103
lotsofpulp wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MBAs making supply chains inherently fragile and over who valued BS things like JIT are just reflecting what is most rewarded in the corpo culture: Also reflected in what is most rewarded by consumers: lower prices. No business was ever going to thrive selling US manufactured goods at a significant price premium compared to non US manufactured goods.

I dunno I'm currently trying to boycott Chinese made goods, regardless the cost. I'm in the position to be able to do that but so are many others. It's like they're targeting the lowest common denominator. It's a self fulfilling prophecy right? If the manufacturing was internal to the US say, theres more jobs hence better economy hence people are able too afford those locally prepared goods. That probably requires a…

>It's almost as if globalism breeds poverty, and is just a way for megacorps to milk us of our cash.

Or it is arbitraging labor prices across different markets and lifting up others. Or it is also arbitraging environmental regulations and taking advantage of more corrupt/inept societies. Or it is also arbitraging better efficiencies in a more appropriately regulated economy, rather than an under or over regulated economy.

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#105

Post by mikrotikker »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #79
noufalibrahim wrote: post #59

" allow farmers to repair their own equipment" - What a terrible state of affairs if this is an exception rather than the norm. :(

> "allow farmers to repair their own equipment" - What a terrible state of affairs if this is an exception rather than the norm. :( Blame your fellow 'I'm just making money' loose ethics type programmer, they could just as easily be making drones used to destroy entire apartment buildings or the privacy-intruding facial recognition with that type reasoning, but instead they choose to deny farmers from making the food…

"If I don't do it someone else will"

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#106

Post by jacquesm »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #38
donmcronald wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. My wishlist: - Repair manuals. - Reasonably priced replacement parts. - Give the owner a key to sign / certify any parts they want. - Give the owner the ability to disable OTA updates. - Give the government a key to sign / certify parts. - Give the government the ability to review and delay OTA updates. I don't want some mega corp in a foreign nation holding the means of food production hostage via parts serial…

Fuck lenovo Europe for parts, nothing available for an X1 C6, so around 3-4y old. Had to buy on a customer website hoping for a genuine part. What was Lenovo answer to buy a replacement battery ? Send in your laptop to diagnostic a dead battery.

For a couple of years now I see laptops as consumables rather than as full members of the family of general purpose computers. If they break they are impossible to repair without special tools or sending them in so I just demolish them, pull out the storage device and shred it. The rest can then be safely turned in as electronics waste at the local depot.

It's pretty sad because replaceable batteries have been a thing in just about everything since I was a kid and the idea that laptops are somehow so special that we can't do it because they are thin is ridiculous to me. But apparently that's what the market wants.

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#107

Post by mikrotikker »

Roark66 wrote: post #71

They'll provide "tools and manuals". If this includes service software that is good. Also I wonder what kind of detail is there in those service manuals. For the mechanical components I would at least expect drawings of each assembly showing every gear, every seal, every clip with spec. For electronics I would expect at least board view files if not schematics. Do I believe this will happen before it is law to publis…

Like the Haynes and other manuals that show circuit layouts and exploded views and service descriptions for every part of a vehicle.

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#108

Post by mikrotikker »

cujaneway wrote: post #50

What even are the alternatives for farmers, particularly in the US where I presume Deere reigns supreme. Kubota, Kverneland? Or is it effectively a racket where every agricultural equipment manufacturer behaves the same.

I see more Claas than Deere down under

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#109

Post by jacquesm »

Deere's competitors should go all-in on maintainability and documentation as a countermove. When it starts to eat into their marketshare they'll pay attention, until then they will just drag their heels as much as legally possible.

Unfortunately Case IH, New Holland, Claas and Kubota all have a similar attitude towards their customers, which makes this an industry wide problem, not a John Deere problem. Legislators should ignore the veiled threats and force these companies to open up 'or else'.

Re: Deere to allow farmers to repair their own equipment

#110

Post by mschuster91 »

donmcronald wrote: post #19
user3939382 wrote: post #11

I’ll believe it when I see it. So far every right to repair compliance on their side has been met with bad faith circumventions. Like making tools available in theory but not actually.

Yeah. My wishlist: - Repair manuals. - Reasonably priced replacement parts. - Give the owner a key to sign / certify any parts they want. - Give the owner the ability to disable OTA updates. - Give the government a key to sign / certify parts. - Give the government the ability to review and delay OTA updates. I don't want some mega corp in a foreign nation holding the means of food production hostage via parts serial…

> Give the government a key to sign / certify parts.

Bad idea. Very bad idea. We've already seen malware campaigns where governments actually stole signing credentials such as Stuxnet, where the creators managed to get their malware signed by Realtek and JMicron certificates [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17101171

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