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A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

nytimes.com

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Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#61

Post by gnull »

Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country?

In the end, you will have one of the two encompass the other. Either you have a secular country living by democratic, progressive law which allows people to be Muslims modulo this. Or you have a Muslim country living by Shariah law, but tolerating secular non-believers in it.

First won't work because Muslims (in the traditional sense) won't tolerate some other framework encompassing their worldview. They have taboo topics nobody should ever question, and secular ideology based on science will question things.

And second won't work because Shariah law gives very concrete directions on dealing with non-believers.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#63

Post by kergonath »

toxik wrote: post #25
thuridas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The response from a caricature vs a respectful historical depiction may be very different. Remember that in US this happened not a long time ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Salman_Rushdie

[flagged]

> According to Islam

According to a perverted, fundamentalist view of Islam. Islam is much more diverse than Iran and Saudi Arabia. The fact that they manage to impose their sectarian practices as standard Islam in much of the world is very problematic.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#64

Post by jnovek »

toxik wrote: post #25
thuridas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The response from a caricature vs a respectful historical depiction may be very different. Remember that in US this happened not a long time ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Salman_Rushdie

[flagged]

To clarify, are you comparing Muslims who see depictions of Muhammad as sacrilegious to rabid dogs?

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#65

Post by bonbonbonj »

kergonath wrote: post #56

The fact that people describing themselves as progressive are fighting to forbid blasphemy has got to be the worst “freedom is slavery” newspeak in the last decade. When did it become acceptable for one sect to dictate what we are allowed to talk about? They are the enthusiastic useful idiots for dark age theocrats, the exact translation of our despicable white nationalists and Christian supremacists.

That is unfortunately a feature of modern-day progressivism. There are a number of other 'blasphemies' that it condemns (that are actually often censored on HN too, in the name of civility) as well.

I miss the progressivism of old, where there was more of an emphasis on tolerance even when one disagrees.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#66

Post by joxel »

woofyman wrote: post #44
lakomen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thus apparently extends to gender or rather sexuality as well recently. I've been banned for asking why my sexuality - heterosexual, is excluded, actually not even asked why but if a flag representing my sexuality existed, since there were a bunch of flags that represented every possible spectrum, even asexuality. I am not at all racist, my best friend has dark skin, but I also can't help but notice that on social ne…

You’ve never had to fight for basic human rights as a white straight person.

I don’t think this is true?

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#67

Post by mola »

morby wrote: post #28
benj111 wrote: post #3

Isn't it prohibited to depict any of god's creations in some/many/all Islamic sects? Thus all the interesting geometric patterns. Does that mean that virtually all Western art is islamaphobic? At what point does the demand that Western art doesn't do something that offend Islam itself become westernphobic.

This is a nonsensical conclusion because obviously the Muslim world doesn’t perceive western art in this way. I do think there is a distinct difference between expecting respect from people that you share space with. Someone will surely reply about the violence some people partake in. Violence is never okay and is the route of maybe 0.5% of people, so I think basing how you interact with an entire demographic of peop…

You assume the majority doesn't support violence as a response for depiction of Mohammed. The reality might surprise you.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#69

Post by janalsncm »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #33
fancybouncy wrote: post #13

[flagged]

Why are you assuming they are foreigners? Why do you assume these were not natives in their own country who held these feelings anyway? Do you observe and respect any festivities in the calendar at all? Christmas? Thanksgiving? Easter? Passover? Diwali? Why are these not "dumb superstitions", but other people's are? You don't get to decide how somebody else is going to react to something, you only get to decide if yo…

Great response. I’m surprised to see xenophobia on HN.

This story is about overbearing administrators infringing on academic freedoms, not Islam vs Western Values. But a lot of people have the Islam v The West hammer, so they’re going to use it in this nail.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#70

Post by rippercushions »

joenot443 wrote: post #15
thuridas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The response from a caricature vs a respectful historical depiction may be very different. Remember that in US this happened not a long time ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Salman_Rushdie

It's incredibly sad seeing Shia extremism making its way to North America. This was only a few months ago too. What's even scarier about this case was that the Iranian government issued a fatwa on the victim in 1989, and then Iranian state media celebrated the attack 30 years later.

Oddly enough, Shias are much more tolerant of depictions of Muhammed, it's the hardline Sunni who really have a problem with it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depictions_of_Muhammad#Conte...

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