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The Cornell Note Taking System

lsc.cornell.edu

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Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#61

Post by ghaff »

mindcrime wrote: post #58
blahedo wrote: post #47

Ooooooh I have a burning hate for this system (the dislike is rational, the burning part is not entirely rational but justified). Way back in high school my AP history teacher not only taught us this (cool, that's part of his job) and checked that we were able to do it (reasonable), he required us to submit notes in this exact format, for every reading, all year, which he graded. After I determined that my comprehens…

I'm reminded of a couple of my favorite quotes: "Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it." "Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own" ~~ Bruce Lee

That describes a lot of the systems I've encountered perhaps especially in the productivity area such as GTD. Are there some specific good ideas? Yep. Adopt the whole system religiously? That would be a big no.

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#62

Post by kstrauser »

Veen wrote: post #11

The main thing I learned watching these videos is that Cornell students—or Americans more generally, perhaps—hold pens in a way that seems unusual to me. For example, with the thumb wrapped round the pen or with it gripped by the tips of all five fingers. Is that normal in the US? In the UK, I was taught to grip the pen with my thumb and forefinger tips and rest it on my middle finger. Most people I see writing hold…

There are many ways to hold pens[0]. The “dynamic tripod” grip is the one they taught in elementary school, but it wasn’t until I bought a Lamy Safari fountain pen a couple years ago that I could hold a pen that way. I use the “lateral tripod” grip, not because I was taught it or even wanted to, but that’s how I naturally pick up a pen to write. It drove my dad nuts and I tried really hard to do it the “right” way, but the instant I stopped thinking about it I’d go back to my way.

It turns out that both of those are considered good grips. The dynamic tripod is preferred, but both are just fine from a physiology, balance, and control point of view.

[0] https://www.ot-mom-learning-activities.com/correct-pencil-gr...

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#63

Post by ghaff »

SoftTalker wrote: post #23
vl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The secret is that American school doesn’t really bother itself with that much teaching. Nobody teaches children how to hold pens properly, cursive writing, etc.

Yeah sad but true. I think cursive is still taught for a year or two in elementary school but after that it's not required and most kids just print or develop their own personal blend of printing/cursive handwriting. I still take notes by hand, on paper, using cursive. I prefer a quality wood pencil and a separate rubber-type eraser for note-taking. For writing text, typing is faster but for note-taking during lectur…

I was taught Palmer script in grade school--always one of my worst classes. Basically can't do it any longer.

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#64

Post by quanticle »

maphew wrote: post #24

The rash of "no way" responses makes me wonder: what note taking system(s) have you encountered that actually work for you? (And why, if known.) From someone who episodically takes notes in haphazard fashion and very rarely looks at them again, and thinks he's probably woefully working harder than he should as a result.

This is what works for me:

- When reading, researching, listening to a lecture/podcast/video/etc, take notes on paper. Don't really worry about the formatting or the organization

- Then, in a separate step, structure and transcribe the notes into org-mode (or OneNote or Roam or Evernote or …)

For me, having that two-pass system really does a lot to improve retention. I can type a lot more quickly than I can write by hand, so the actual time commitment for the transcription step isn't very high. But I've found that forcing myself to go over my notes (at least once) in order to get them into an organized and searchable format does a lot to improve how well I remember what I've taken notes on. It also has the added bonus of allowing me to be as messy and disorganized as I need to be in order to get the information down in the first step, because I know that what I'm writing down isn't the "final version", and I'll be going back over it again to edit.

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#65

Post by xp84 »

blahedo wrote: post #47

Ooooooh I have a burning hate for this system (the dislike is rational, the burning part is not entirely rational but justified). Way back in high school my AP history teacher not only taught us this (cool, that's part of his job) and checked that we were able to do it (reasonable), he required us to submit notes in this exact format, for every reading, all year, which he graded. After I determined that my comprehens…

wow, grading the notes is terrible! If they helped you enough to get a good grade, penalizing you is ridiculous! Conversely if your "bad" notes are why you have a bad grade, knocking it down further seems almost spiteful!

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#66

Post by wrp »

vincent-manis wrote: post #41

This, like any system, works better for some individuals than others, depending on their learning style. I liked the presentation here, basically “try this, you may find it valuable”. I'm sure that some people found it useless, others very useful. When I was teaching, students would sometimes ask me for permission to record the lectures. I always said yes, because I know that some students learn best aurally, and fin…

> ...identifying the tools that help them learn best.

Ideally, we could present students with a variety of study techniques and let them choose what works best for them. The problem is that most students don't have the judgement or enthusiasm to pursue it on their own, so we have to spend some time forcing it to see what sticks. It's tremendously gratifying to be able to observe a student become a more effective learner, but that happens only with a small minority (leading to dark moments of questioning my value as a teacher).

Another problem is evaluating "what works". In school, outcomes are assumed to be adequately represented by grades. However, different teachers will emphasize and test differently, so specific study methods may not be equally helpful in all situations.

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#67

Post by wrp »

Veen wrote: post #11

The main thing I learned watching these videos is that Cornell students—or Americans more generally, perhaps—hold pens in a way that seems unusual to me. For example, with the thumb wrapped round the pen or with it gripped by the tips of all five fingers. Is that normal in the US? In the UK, I was taught to grip the pen with my thumb and forefinger tips and rest it on my middle finger. Most people I see writing hold…

I don't know if there is a technical name for it, but I call the grip you describe as the "fist" grip. I see it used almost exclusively by females and I have speculated that it is motivated by the force required to make legible marks with cheap ballpoint pens. I noted that the boys in those videos were all using the standard "tripod" grip.

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#68

Post by parkaboy »

chazeon wrote: post #26

On a personal note, I found any form of notetaking is distraction for me to grasping information... I really don't understand how someone could take good note while also listen... I found this only when I starting my PhD. I hope I know this sooner. Also, notetaking in any designed system is worse than a blank piece of paper for me. Not sure if any one would agree.

Resonate with this so hard. At some point I stopped taking notes completely early into my (engineering!) PhD and magically and all of a sudden this dense complex stuff started making sense. Was angry at myself for the difficult time I had during undergrad because of it.

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#69

Post by wrp »

gaetgu wrote: post #18
Veen wrote: post #11

The main thing I learned watching these videos is that Cornell students—or Americans more generally, perhaps—hold pens in a way that seems unusual to me. For example, with the thumb wrapped round the pen or with it gripped by the tips of all five fingers. Is that normal in the US? In the UK, I was taught to grip the pen with my thumb and forefinger tips and rest it on my middle finger. Most people I see writing hold…

I am a student here in the US. I was certainly taught to hold and write with pens/pencils in the way that you describe. That being said, I have noticed that I and many of my peers somehow moved over to holding it with the thumb wrapped around the pen, and the pen held more straight up and down. I am not quite sure what causes this, but I think that is is related to the way that you must hold many cheap ballpoint pens…

There was a big change over the 1950s in how people held their pens, as we shifted from fountain pens to ballpoints. You can see in pre-1950 movies how people held their pens (and pencils) less vertically.

A fountain pen will encourage you to adopt the old style of grip, with the result of less physical stress on the hand and more legible writing.

Re: The Cornell Note Taking System

#70

Post by charles_f »

blahedo wrote: post #47

Ooooooh I have a burning hate for this system (the dislike is rational, the burning part is not entirely rational but justified). Way back in high school my AP history teacher not only taught us this (cool, that's part of his job) and checked that we were able to do it (reasonable), he required us to submit notes in this exact format, for every reading, all year, which he graded. After I determined that my comprehens…

> pressure me to cancel my AP exam and take a partial refund for it

Having done my studies in Europe, I'm wondering how much additional anxiety having this kind of pecuniary questions you can get. Discussing a refund if you fail a course sounds so alien to me

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