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Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

vadimkravcenko.com

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Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#241

Post by dinkumthinkum »

mikrl wrote: post #179
Galanwe wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because there is a very strong negative correlation between overworking and productivity / quality of work Working outside of business hours is not the same as overworking. I have some days packed with meetings and calls, and I actually find it refreshing/relaxing to work on more down to earth matters in the evenings or weekend. Sometimes I even take vacations just to code on some work-related projects that I find…

You’re either: - management pretending to be a wagie as a psyop - extremely privileged and never had to grit your teeth to pay the bills - going to have a rude awakening when the crop of younger millennials and Gen Z hits your workplace and you realize these bright young things with dreams and desires are only in software because it’s one of the few lucrative careers left in this proto-fascist shithole of a dying civ…

This is pretty extremist. If you think this is proto-fascist, you must not be aware of what fascism is like. As far as a “shithole” or “dying” civilization, I mean what is an example from of civilizations that are tremendously better or more “living?” I would agree that leftist culture is pretty depressing but I GenZ is a good example of the kind of generation that subsequent generations will react against, though it takes time. As far as Gen Z “hitting the workplace,” the kind programmers you’re talking about don’t seem to know a lot about computing other than React and mashing up APIs; I’m not sure “older” engineers that know things need to be that concerned.

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#242

Post by tj-teej »

roncesvalles wrote: post #236
rco8786 wrote: post #138

Pretty decent article (don't agree with everything, but for the most part) > Code is secondary. Business value is first. I wish I could shout this from a mountaintop. If there's one thing I could change about engineering culture it would be this. But then again I would lose my edge if everyone understood this, so maybe it's best that they don't Engineers: If you want to stand out in your career - take this to heart.…

Unless you're in a Also, maybe my perspective is skewed from only ever working at gigantic companies but what usually grows a career is making your manager's life easy - becoming someone who reliably gets shit done on time and without drama.

I don't think this is the case.

I think most engineering teams will have a "backlog" of tech debt. Some are things they want to do (the original implementation is icky but could be lived with for years until requirements change) and some will save the team hours per week in distractions/maintenance.

Being able to evaluate the actual impact of the "tech debt clean-up" and pick the one which helps the business will absolutely set you apart from your peers.

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#243

Post by simon--poole »

roncesvalles wrote: post #236
rco8786 wrote: post #138

Pretty decent article (don't agree with everything, but for the most part) > Code is secondary. Business value is first. I wish I could shout this from a mountaintop. If there's one thing I could change about engineering culture it would be this. But then again I would lose my edge if everyone understood this, so maybe it's best that they don't Engineers: If you want to stand out in your career - take this to heart.…

Unless you're in a Also, maybe my perspective is skewed from only ever working at gigantic companies but what usually grows a career is making your manager's life easy - becoming someone who reliably gets shit done on time and without drama.

I think you massively underestimate the number of startups with product engineers. It's becoming a much more popular approach with many high-performing startups, even up to the 250+ headcount tiers.

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#244

Post by ro_sharp »

bradlys wrote: post #172
rco8786 wrote: post #138

Pretty decent article (don't agree with everything, but for the most part) > Code is secondary. Business value is first. I wish I could shout this from a mountaintop. If there's one thing I could change about engineering culture it would be this. But then again I would lose my edge if everyone understood this, so maybe it's best that they don't Engineers: If you want to stand out in your career - take this to heart.…

I disagree with both. Code and business value are worthless. Boss approval is literally everything. It really doesn’t matter if your ideas make a ton of business sense if they are in conflict with your direct manager or any part in the chain of hierarchy. As long as they don’t like what you’re saying - you’re literally worse than worthless. Often this is because your idea isn’t their idea - therefore damage to ego. D…

> You jump when they say jump

Thankfully sometimes 'they' are the customers paying real money for a product or service that's valuable to them.

But as you say, larger organizations have more room for political distractions on the way to giving that customer what they want.

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#245

Post by dinkumthinkum »

mypastself wrote: post #152

Some good points here. But I also have to make some objections. > You’ll need to work around incompetence It’s amusing that the article never suggests you might be incompetent. No, no, it’s the “other person” whose incompetence needs to be well-documented. > Rare work-life balance. In other professions, your work day ends at 18:00, and you forget about the job. Not here. You will most likely always be online and chec…

I wonder why so many HNers think that only software people that work or think about work after 5:00? Many doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc do the same. There are many car mechanics that get off work only to work on their cars or other peoples cars talk a lot about what happened at the dealership or whatever. It’s really not that strange.

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#246

Post by dinkumthinkum »

naavis wrote: post #29
intelVISA wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever wrote this hit the enterprise koolaid a bit too much, you're meant to sip not swallow. Calling SWE "working in IT" is where it lost me.

The dictionary definition of information technology (IT) almost exactly describes software engineering. So what is wrong with calling it "working in IT"? For reference, Merriam-Webster defines IT as follows: > the technology involving the development, maintenance, and use of computer systems, software, and networks for the processing and distribution of data

You’re using MW definitions for industry specific meanings?

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#247

Post by auggierose »

rco8786 wrote: post #138

Pretty decent article (don't agree with everything, but for the most part) > Code is secondary. Business value is first. I wish I could shout this from a mountaintop. If there's one thing I could change about engineering culture it would be this. But then again I would lose my edge if everyone understood this, so maybe it's best that they don't Engineers: If you want to stand out in your career - take this to heart.…

Everybody agrees counting lines of code is a bad idea to measure progress in programming.

Now you say measuring the money it makes is the way to go.

Money is not the goal. Money is just another tool. Like VSCode.

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#248

Post by dinkumthinkum »

cam0 wrote: post #9

I had never seen that cartoon about the "dream job" before, but it's something I've thought about so many times as I've listened to people talk about their dream job or dream employer. It always struck me as strange to dream of labor / dream of being an employee - must be a cultural thing.

If it’s a cultural thing can you tell me a developed country that doesn’t have such things?

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#249

Post by dinkumthinkum »

randomdata wrote: post #55
cam0 wrote: post #9

I had never seen that cartoon about the "dream job" before, but it's something I've thought about so many times as I've listened to people talk about their dream job or dream employer. It always struck me as strange to dream of labor / dream of being an employee - must be a cultural thing.

There is value in dreaming about your options. A dream house is another example of this. Let's face, housing is awful. The pie in the sky dream would dream of not needing housing at all, but more realistically I can also dream of a house that makes some things slightly less awful. Dreaming about that house provides me with information that I need to move towards it. More likely it is a semantic thing. I imagine every…

Not needing a house at all? Is that like dreaming of being a disembodied spirit?

Re: Things they didn’t teach you about software engineering

#250

Post by shrimp_emoji »

rco8786 wrote: post #138

Pretty decent article (don't agree with everything, but for the most part) > Code is secondary. Business value is first. I wish I could shout this from a mountaintop. If there's one thing I could change about engineering culture it would be this. But then again I would lose my edge if everyone understood this, so maybe it's best that they don't Engineers: If you want to stand out in your career - take this to heart.…

>Code is not the goal. Money is the goal

>eventually your pushing will bubble up to someone who works in "the business" (directors, executives, etc) and not just other engineers and they will invariably support you

MBA-driven development when

You can never go wrong when optimizing for profit above all else.

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