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Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

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Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#81
post #36

Plastics are inert. This is why they don't biodegrade easily. It is the additives in the plastics (to make them softer, or color them, or whatever) that are terrible for you. By the time these things are 'microplastics' I am having a hard time feeling scared that they are harmful. I'm not saying they aren't, but until someone can tie them to an actual problem, I don't see an issue -- especially since there is nothing…

There’s nothing wrong with one-time-use plastics, in countries with good waste management systems. Paper straws suck.

Every paper straw I have ever used has been great.

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My city outright banned single-use grocery bags. I was already in the habit of bringing re-usable bags, but every so often I'll have forgotten to grab bags or I'm stopping in on my way home from something else so I don't have them on me. Before the plastic bag ban, I'd just grab a "single-use" bag, and then use it as a trash bag for my kitchen or bathroom. Since the ban I regularly buy kitchen trash bags, I have abou…

Before the plastic bag ban, I'd just grab a "single-use" bag, and then use it as a trash bag for my kitchen or bathroom. Since the ban I regularly buy kitchen trash bags I wonder if those who come up with these ideas realise the irony of forcing people to buy bags which are truly going to be single-use instead of reusing what they would've already had.

How many people in your life re-use grocery bags? I'm fairly certain grocery bag bans are a net-win when viewed from the perspective of total plastic usage, because MOST people would have to be using them at least twice for the result to be anything other than a net-win from any perspective but mine. I only managed to use about as many as I was given because I got pretty good at remembering my re-usable bags...

The problem is not the burden of changing my behaviour, or the extra cost of buying exactly as much single-use plastic as I need in the form of a box of trash bags a couple times a year - the problem is why are we starting with this?? I'm dead certain that there are a ton of single-use plastics we could ban that would have close to ZERO impact on 99.9% of people's lives, because it would be handled entirely by industry doing a single re-tooling of their lines, but we're not doing those for some strange reason?

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#83

Microplastics are so pervasive that they're even found in human breastmilk now. Maybe it's fatalistic, but what is the point of worrying about this on an individual level beyond limiting use of certain plastic products? And it's not just microplastics - we're seeing other news about "forever chemicals," hormones in our food, the global drop of average male sperm production by 50% (!!!), etc. At a certain point, apath…

We are doomed. The only conscious choice is not having more children to live on this dying planet. I see this is a fact. All our efforts to "save the climate" or ban some especially dangerous chemicals are lipstick on the pig.

Congratulations on being the first person in human history to call the end times correctly.

Again and again we’ve shown we can make these transitions, including surviving a major ice age. While there’s good reason to worry, as lack of worry denotes foolhardiness, despair is both self-defeating and counterfactual to the whole of human history.

This time it may well be different, but if it is, then your attitude is guaranteed to lead to failure, as we will then not take the necessary steps to secure the future.

My money is on a technological solution overall, but there are many things regular people can meaningfully do, such as driving less, giving up one or more cars, or choosing to build or renovate toward highly insulated, potentially net carbon sequestering house as with the passive house standard, switch to heat pump based a/c and water heating, and voluntarily contributing to carbon sequestration efforts such as through YC alum Wren https://www.wren.co/join/Empact

If you think that’s not enough, and perhaps you’re right, what lever do we need to press to make change? It is our responsibility as the current generation to identify and press that lever to secure the future for our descendants.

Politically, my money is on the Citizen’s Climate Lobby effort to bring about a carbon tax, and the American Conservation Coalition for its effort to raise the prospect of environmental policy in the Republican sphere. If enough people vote on this issue alone[1], as the second amendment and abortion communities have effectively done over the past forty years, then we have a chance to shift policy in the direction of conservation/protection.

For me that means: a carbon tax to reduce demand, unleashing zero-carbon sources like nuclear to further out-compete the fossil fuel plants, while also embracing efficient infrastructure like pipelines to efficiently convey that supply we continue to use. On this last point, remember that the demand is constrained via a carbon tax.

The world needs our earnest efforts. You can keep your despair.[2]

[1] particularly in the primaries, as most house districts are now non-competitive between the parties

[2] Incidentally, I think the hysteria on the left is also counterproductive, as “the sky is falling” only reaches so many people before it discredits the speaker, and the goal should of convincing the middle does not require them to be terrified - IMO the easiest way to do that is to make the behavior high-status and motivate people that way, e.g. see Tesla, solar panels, etc.

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#84
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are doomed. The only conscious choice is not having more children to live on this dying planet. I see this is a fact. All our efforts to "save the climate" or ban some especially dangerous chemicals are lipstick on the pig.

Congratulations on being the first person in human history to call the end times correctly. Again and again we’ve shown we can make these transitions, including surviving a major ice age. While there’s good reason to worry, as lack of worry denotes foolhardiness, despair is both self-defeating and counterfactual to the whole of human history. This time it may well be different, but if it is, then your attitude is gua…

>Incidentally, I think the hysteria on the left is also counterproductive

The left is definitely more vocal about it, but it seems like it's a state of mind created by tough personal circumstances which act as a base of projection + poor education which doesn't throttle the projection, and those two things affect many people across the political spectrum. Right-wingers have the steam valves of denial and religion though.

If, instead of climate change, the hysteria were about engineered pandemics escaping labs (not COVID; I mean an actual engineered pandemic sometime in the future), I think it would actually be warranted but equally unhelpful. :p

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the plastic bag ban, I'd just grab a "single-use" bag, and then use it as a trash bag for my kitchen or bathroom. Since the ban I regularly buy kitchen trash bags I wonder if those who come up with these ideas realise the irony of forcing people to buy bags which are truly going to be single-use instead of reusing what they would've already had.

How many people in your life re-use grocery bags? I'm fairly certain grocery bag bans are a net-win when viewed from the perspective of total plastic usage, because MOST people would have to be using them at least twice for the result to be anything other than a net-win from any perspective but mine. I only managed to use about as many as I was given because I got pretty good at remembering my re-usable bags... The p…

Everyone I know reuses them; not just for trash, but they're handy for whenever you need a bag (or even just a film of plastic) for whatever reason, because they take up almost no room.

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#86
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think there's a limit to how much doom and gloom an individual can productively handle and I suppose this also applies to society as a whole. People seem to accept that it's all downhill from here, and sometimes even cynically applaud it. Like with the male sperm story. It's catastrophic and accelerating, yet got near-zero attention. The few responses to it seem to celebrate it. Humanity lacks a story for the fu…

"People seem to accept that it's all downhill from here" Strange, I know plenty of people that do see an upside, including myself. It's a choice to believe things can and will get better. Unless you have a crystal ball, we're both choosing to believe in an unknown future. So choosing to believe it will get worse is no different from believing it will get better. Although one is arguably better for mental health.

You make an excellent point, there's a major oversight in my original post.

The distortion lens of media and social media is a thing. The real world and its people are vastly different from what one might read online. Yet an increasing amount of people barely interact with the real world and real people, hence they internalize the doom and gloom as if it is reality.

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the plastic bag ban, I'd just grab a "single-use" bag, and then use it as a trash bag for my kitchen or bathroom. Since the ban I regularly buy kitchen trash bags I wonder if those who come up with these ideas realise the irony of forcing people to buy bags which are truly going to be single-use instead of reusing what they would've already had.

How many people in your life re-use grocery bags? I'm fairly certain grocery bag bans are a net-win when viewed from the perspective of total plastic usage, because MOST people would have to be using them at least twice for the result to be anything other than a net-win from any perspective but mine. I only managed to use about as many as I was given because I got pretty good at remembering my re-usable bags... The p…

Single use grocery bags are problematic in the sense they use almost no resources individually. Anything you're replacing them with uses far more plastic and/or energy to produce. A reusable bag tends to need reused dozens to a hundred times for the material needed to make it. Then add in you need to wash the reusable to avoid spreading food borne contamination and the ratio gets even worse.

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always dream about opening a single use plastic shop in the future, for those who just don‘t care and those who are actively opposed to it being removed everywhere. For example, drinking delicious Coca-Cola Zero Sugar at McDonalds from a paper straw is disgusting. The straw usually disintegrates before I am done and sticks to the lips at the start. I love single use plastic.

Who even uses straws? Straws should be reserved for the disabled.

Dentists recommend using a straw, especially when you have braces. I don't think you're plan will be well taken.

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#89

Plastics are inert. This is why they don't biodegrade easily. It is the additives in the plastics (to make them softer, or color them, or whatever) that are terrible for you. By the time these things are 'microplastics' I am having a hard time feeling scared that they are harmful. I'm not saying they aren't, but until someone can tie them to an actual problem, I don't see an issue -- especially since there is nothing…

It is the additives in the plastics (to make them softer, or color them, or whatever) that are terrible for you. That said, one-time-use plastics are absolutely obscene and need to be removed from society as soon as humanly possible. Those seem to be somewhat conflicting viewpoints. The overwhelming majority of single-use plastics are PE or PP, which also don't really have much in the way of additives. PVC, ABS, and…

I have dental floss and tape made out of PFAS. Unfortunately its 25% PFAS content is what makes Oral B floss so good and waxy- I haven't found a non-PFAS floss that works half as well

Re: Microplastics are finding their way into fruit and vegetables as they grow

#90
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing wrong with one-time-use plastics, in countries with good waste management systems. Paper straws suck.

Metal straws (and spoons, forks, knives) are amazing.

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