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Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

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Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#101

Post by sieabahlpark »

ht85 wrote: post #79
ajross wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the proper control to use for interacting with a navigation aid in the UK? Or are you saying that UK law forbids in-car maps? These arguments always end up in this kind of hyper-specific realm where they seem to apply only to Tesla's particular design choices. But, in car maps are everywhere now (and, yes, Tesla's implementation is by far the best), and the natural way you use them is with touch. They absolute…

> What's the proper control to use for interacting with a navigation 1. Voice control 2. Pull over

[dead]

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#102

Post by javajosh »

samch wrote: post #90

I’d like to offer a possibly controversial alternative viewpoint on this. On a longer time horizon than just the past few years, we saw the introduction of touchscreens for drivers way back in the early 2000s. We just called them smartphones. Before that, rush hour commuters could be spotted reading newspapers, shaving, applying makeup, and eating breakfast while driving. All of those pose real dangers to themselves…

Maybe there is a sense in which this is an awkward transition period to fully autonomous vehicles. Because you're right, most of us don't want to pay attention to the road, which is boring.

However, we don't know the risk/reward associated with ceding control over our safety and the safety of others to an internet controlled computer. Over time, human controls (and skills) atrophy, so that when another Carrington event happens humans will not be able to recover. It also makes us even more susceptible to hacking attacks - wide-spread use of autonomous vehicles will mean that a sufficiently skilled hacker can kill you from afar. If not with your car, with someone else's.

So, no, I'm not particularly excited giving computers control over my car, my home, my life, even if it seems like a good idea. The downsides are just too substantial, and honestly humans can and should retain some responsibility for their own well-being, on first principle.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#103

Post by richbell »

lozenge wrote: post #34
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awareness in my view is useless because touchscreens in auto infotainment are far more visually impressive so they will always be preferred from a buyer's perspective. What we need is to build a body of scientific evidence to support regulating Auto infotainment within some form of safety-critical guard rails. It is obvious that touch without mechanical/haptic feedback is dangerous both in terms of decreasing eyes-on…

This might be true for the first time people buy a touch screen car, but after that they'll swear off them. Unless they never used any alternative...

> Unless they never used any alternative...

It's the product quality equivalent of the Overton Window. People are impressed by their appliances lasting 5 years, or other mediocre accomplishments, because that's increasingly the norm.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#104

Post by phpisthebest »

PreInternet01 wrote: post #17

I would love to see some EU legislation about car dashboards. As an occasional driver of many different brands and types of vehicles, I continue to be amazed at the usability crimes being committed in the name of 'looking cool' (stated reason) as well as 'cost savings' (most likely the real reason). Any function that needs to be invoked or setting that needs to be changed by a reasonable person while driving should h…

>>I would love to see some EU legislation

Why does the EU believe every facet of life needs to be ordered and control by government regulation, is there any area of life at all in the EU that should be free from government interference? That is an honest question because every time anything comes up the first response from citizens of the EU is to declare government should be the right and proper resolution to the problem

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#105

Post by cal85 »

ajross wrote: post #75
afandian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Tesla FSD video[0] the driver spent a lot of time swiping back and forth on the map. If that touchscreen were an iPad, that behaviour would be illegal in the UK. I don't know what the road law is in the US, and if they sell the same Tesla model in the UK. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34268454

What's the proper control to use for interacting with a navigation aid in the UK? Or are you saying that UK law forbids in-car maps? These arguments always end up in this kind of hyper-specific realm where they seem to apply only to Tesla's particular design choices. But, in car maps are everywhere now (and, yes, Tesla's implementation is by far the best), and the natural way you use them is with touch. They absolute…

> They absolutely make finding your way around [...] safer

How so? Not disputing, just curious what you mean.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#106

Post by happymellon »

phpisthebest wrote: post #104
PreInternet01 wrote: post #17

I would love to see some EU legislation about car dashboards. As an occasional driver of many different brands and types of vehicles, I continue to be amazed at the usability crimes being committed in the name of 'looking cool' (stated reason) as well as 'cost savings' (most likely the real reason). Any function that needs to be invoked or setting that needs to be changed by a reasonable person while driving should h…

>>I would love to see some EU legislation Why does the EU believe every facet of life needs to be ordered and control by government regulation, is there any area of life at all in the EU that should be free from government interference? That is an honest question because every time anything comes up the first response from citizens of the EU is to declare government should be the right and proper resolution to the pr…

Because leaving it "to the market" is always a race to the bottom, and there ends up being no choice on voting with your wallet.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#107

Post by vel0city »

I have a car with many buttons[0] and a car with few buttons[1]. I'd take the few button one every time.

While my few button car doesn't have many buttons, all to the critical to driving inputs have physical controls. Lights, wipers, defrosters, volume, etc is all on or immediately around the wheel.

Meanwhile, on my many button car, sure there's a button for most things this car can do. But almost all those buttons in the middle never get pressed. They're essentially a waste of space. And most of them, even if I were to press them I wouldn't be doing so while the car is in motion. I shouldn't be messing with the navigation system while the car is in motion. I shouldn't be flipping through folders on the mp3 CD or flash drive. I shouldn't be messing with the phone functions, I shouldn't be messing with the Blue link stuff, etc.

Having all those buttons aren't a positive while driving, they're a negative. They make the map I do use while driving much smaller. And when stopped, they make the Android Auto interface I interact with much smaller and overall worse.

Don't get me wrong, some manufacturers have gone way overboard and put things like glove compartments and AC vents and shifters on a screen or eliminated the stalks. There should be a balance for sure, but having a screen in a car is nice.

[0] https://www.autoguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/20...

[1] https://www.macheforum.com/site/attachments/screen-shot-2021...

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#108

Post by kube-system »

ajross wrote: post #75
afandian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Tesla FSD video[0] the driver spent a lot of time swiping back and forth on the map. If that touchscreen were an iPad, that behaviour would be illegal in the UK. I don't know what the road law is in the US, and if they sell the same Tesla model in the UK. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34268454

What's the proper control to use for interacting with a navigation aid in the UK? Or are you saying that UK law forbids in-car maps? These arguments always end up in this kind of hyper-specific realm where they seem to apply only to Tesla's particular design choices. But, in car maps are everywhere now (and, yes, Tesla's implementation is by far the best), and the natural way you use them is with touch. They absolute…

Many places forbid driving while distracted, and this often applies regardless of the source of distraction. Just because something is connected to the vehicle doesn’t mean that any use of that equipment is necessary legal.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#109

Post by kayodelycaon »

PreInternet01 wrote: post #95
kayodelycaon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the dashboard in my 2014 Prius. The speedometer is digital numbers, which is great because I have trouble reading dials. Never had an issue with anything freezing up. Later Toyotas I’ve rented have full color screens. They work okay.

Oh, I'm fine with digital readouts, as long as there is an analog backup for when you hit that unavoidable software bug. Airplanes get this right: even on the latest Airbus, you still have the basic altitude, air/vertical speed and heading instruments, in a familiar place and configuration, based on boring physical/analog principles, just in case you need them... (and, because they're mandated by FAA [14 CFR 91] and…

Those backup instruments are starting to be replaced with digital systems using a battery backup. And analog gyros have always needed a power source. (Doesn’t have to be electrical.) :)

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#110

Post by bspammer »

phpisthebest wrote: post #104
PreInternet01 wrote: post #17

I would love to see some EU legislation about car dashboards. As an occasional driver of many different brands and types of vehicles, I continue to be amazed at the usability crimes being committed in the name of 'looking cool' (stated reason) as well as 'cost savings' (most likely the real reason). Any function that needs to be invoked or setting that needs to be changed by a reasonable person while driving should h…

>>I would love to see some EU legislation Why does the EU believe every facet of life needs to be ordered and control by government regulation, is there any area of life at all in the EU that should be free from government interference? That is an honest question because every time anything comes up the first response from citizens of the EU is to declare government should be the right and proper resolution to the pr…

The market is clearly not doing a good enough job in this case, and the problem is one of safety.
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