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Jazz Is Freedom

thebaffler.com

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Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#11

Post by i_am_proteus »

jefurii wrote: post #9

In one sense jazz is all about freedom - you can play "whatever you want!"- but in many other senses it's as incredibly traditional and formulaic.as classical. There is a canon of songs that is worshipped, and song structures and instrument combos are mostly frozen in amber, and there are lines you just cannot cross. Every genre gets like that after awhile I guess.

This is true of several sub-genres of jazz, but there are many musicians who play a genre that they call jazz who do not worship this canon, do not follow these song structures or instrument combos rigidly, and cross these lines with abandon.

I'll go as far as to say that the entire modern jazz movement recognizes earlier jazz (swing/bebop/cool/funk) as seminal to the art form, but deliberately experiments and takes risks away from classical jazz forms.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#12

Post by slater- »

jefurii wrote: post #9

In one sense jazz is all about freedom - you can play "whatever you want!"- but in many other senses it's as incredibly traditional and formulaic.as classical. There is a canon of songs that is worshipped, and song structures and instrument combos are mostly frozen in amber, and there are lines you just cannot cross. Every genre gets like that after awhile I guess.

there's this concept of jazz "as a verb" vs "as a noun."

musicians back in the day were limited by the technology of the day, so they played things like horns and upright basses. the thing that made their music "jazz" was the improvisation. the jazz was something they did, not an objective genre standard.

if monk or miles or coltrane were alive today, their music would be way different. they'd probably take advantage of samples, synthesizers, maybe even AI? i don't know. but the key to their genius was the intent behind their playing, the way they bent harmonic structure in service of their improvised melodic ideas. this is jazz as a verb.

as soon as jazz became "america's art form, now playing at the lincoln center and available as an honors track college major" it wasn't actually jazz. so many people are doing it wrong. welcome to america!

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#13

Post by analog31 »

jefurii wrote: post #9

In one sense jazz is all about freedom - you can play "whatever you want!"- but in many other senses it's as incredibly traditional and formulaic.as classical. There is a canon of songs that is worshipped, and song structures and instrument combos are mostly frozen in amber, and there are lines you just cannot cross. Every genre gets like that after awhile I guess.

Yes, that's the inherent tension within jazz. It's pure freedom, but it's also inseparable from its history, the people who play it today, and even the audience.

Disclosure: I'm a performing jazz bassist. I'm at a level where I can collaborate with bands, but am not good enough to blaze my own path, except to the extent of having a playing style of my own.

The canon of tunes, and the "standard arrangement" are both a blessing and a curse, and are hardly worshipped. Those things make it easy to assemble a band and perform with no preparation, but get boring after a while.

At least one of my bands plays virtually none of that stuff. Another plays complex written arrangements. A third is mostly old tin pan alley material, but raucous and fun for the audience. It's all jazz. I've noticed that audiences respond quite well to the variety, including my long solos.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#14

Post by galaxyLogic »

analog31 wrote: post #13
jefurii wrote: post #9

In one sense jazz is all about freedom - you can play "whatever you want!"- but in many other senses it's as incredibly traditional and formulaic.as classical. There is a canon of songs that is worshipped, and song structures and instrument combos are mostly frozen in amber, and there are lines you just cannot cross. Every genre gets like that after awhile I guess.

Yes, that's the inherent tension within jazz. It's pure freedom, but it's also inseparable from its history, the people who play it today, and even the audience. Disclosure: I'm a performing jazz bassist. I'm at a level where I can collaborate with bands, but am not good enough to blaze my own path, except to the extent of having a playing style of my own. The canon of tunes, and the "standard arrangement" are both a…

> audiences respond quite well to the variety,

Variety is the fulcrum of all music. And there can be no variety without repetition. Then the variety itself must vary. You're proceeding on the knife's edge, on the other side too much repetition on the other too little. And the proportion of those must vary over time. https://youtu.be/XwIehM-x6kA :-)

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#16

Post by galaxyLogic »

slater- wrote: post #12
jefurii wrote: post #9

In one sense jazz is all about freedom - you can play "whatever you want!"- but in many other senses it's as incredibly traditional and formulaic.as classical. There is a canon of songs that is worshipped, and song structures and instrument combos are mostly frozen in amber, and there are lines you just cannot cross. Every genre gets like that after awhile I guess.

there's this concept of jazz "as a verb" vs "as a noun." musicians back in the day were limited by the technology of the day, so they played things like horns and upright basses. the thing that made their music "jazz" was the improvisation. the jazz was something they did, not an objective genre standard. if monk or miles or coltrane were alive today, their music would be way different. they'd probably take advantage…

Miles did some nice synthesizer stuff as well. And he said he would never go back to be-bob it was all done already.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#19

Post by GoofballJones »

I love jazz. I love Monk. What I don't care for is the jazz musicians and "purists" who, in essence, is like "if it's not jazz, IT'S CRAP" attitude. Especially when they compare jazz to rock. Listen to the "Wrecking Crew" backing musicians from the 60s complain about the rock music they "had" to play on and how simplistic it was...yet were frustrated by how popular it was. They would say how they could play circles around rock musicians...that is until someone like Hendrix and EVH came along. They basically shut up after that because some said "okay, then listen to EVH and replicate THAT for me on my record" and of course, they couldn't.

Even today you can hear people like Quincy Jones (on his interview from a few years ago) bad mouth all the rock musicians like the Beatles and even Michael Jackson and say they couldn't play and their music was terrible and blah blah blah and the "if it's not jazz, IT'S CRAP" thing all over again.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#20

Post by RHSman2 »

jefurii wrote: post #9

In one sense jazz is all about freedom - you can play "whatever you want!"- but in many other senses it's as incredibly traditional and formulaic.as classical. There is a canon of songs that is worshipped, and song structures and instrument combos are mostly frozen in amber, and there are lines you just cannot cross. Every genre gets like that after awhile I guess.

As long as it’s jazz
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