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A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

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Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#41

Post by Klinky »

chucknthem wrote: post #18

Slightly off topic, but I'm sick of post titles that start with "A Redditor's ...". A title like that is just going to encourage comments and culture from reddit which is usually inappropriate here. "Redditors" are mostly normal people, "An insightful message for discouraged students" would have been a perfectly good title to this.

I agree. I feel some people on reddit don't realize that reddit has a gazillion users & that everyone who's on reddit isn't part of some borg utopia collective. This is actually a problem with a lot of user generated content sites where the site gets more credit than the users who create the content that powers the site.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#43

Post by temphn »

JerusaEnt wrote: post #8

I agree with him when he says that it is mostly how hard you work, dedication, and ambition. But wouldn't we just be fooling ourselves when we say it's not genetic? Maybe I'm wrong but, there are such things as kids that knowledge comes easier to, and kids that they simply can't understand something. Also, for example, a kid with ADHD is woefully behind on the "being able to sit and work" ability. I think it's nice t…

You are right, and I came here to take issue with this quote:

  I admired R., and I looked up to him, and while I doubt I 
  will ever compete with his genius, I recognize that it's 
  because of a relative lack of my conviction and an excess 
  of his, not some accident of genetics.
Endurance, focus, and determination are likely to also be substantially heritable, just like raw intelligence.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#44

Post by Klinky »

moultano wrote: post #17
JerusaEnt wrote: post #8

I agree with him when he says that it is mostly how hard you work, dedication, and ambition. But wouldn't we just be fooling ourselves when we say it's not genetic? Maybe I'm wrong but, there are such things as kids that knowledge comes easier to, and kids that they simply can't understand something. Also, for example, a kid with ADHD is woefully behind on the "being able to sit and work" ability. I think it's nice t…

That's one of those facts that is probably true, but not useful (at least to an individual plotting their own course.) If you feel stupid, what's the more likely thing? That you are up against a fundamental barrier, or that you haven't worked hard enough? What's the better outcome, that you knuckle down or give up? Knowing the genetic basis for intelligence is kinda like knowing about obscure diseases. When you have…

Don't you like logic & understanding? I am not sure why anyone here would promote an ignorance is bliss kind of attitude when it comes to mental or learning disorders. This reeks of the military's inability to accept PTSD as a real condition, ostracizing those who claim they have it as being weak or lazy. Does the hacker/geek crowd have the same trouble accepting learning disabilities as a valid form of mental illness?

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#45

Post by Klinky »

int3rnaut wrote: post #19
JerusaEnt wrote: post #8

I agree with him when he says that it is mostly how hard you work, dedication, and ambition. But wouldn't we just be fooling ourselves when we say it's not genetic? Maybe I'm wrong but, there are such things as kids that knowledge comes easier to, and kids that they simply can't understand something. Also, for example, a kid with ADHD is woefully behind on the "being able to sit and work" ability. I think it's nice t…

I think people with disabilities or disadvantages in whatever capacity have the ability to hack the system and find the power to overcome these issues but maybe just in a different way than someone without these problems would solve this problem. I guarantee you, there are kids like me who've gotten fantastic grades at University levels without the scholarly understanding, effort, and aptitude that other people exhib…

There are definitely those who have succeeded despite the odds, but there are also plenty who have failed because of the odds. To ignore genetics is to put your head in the sand. My Portland Trailblazers have had major issues with injuries. Brandon Roy retired due to the knee issues he was born with. Greg Oden's knees appear to be made of rice krispie treats. LaMarcus Aldridge had to get his genetic heart condition treated before this last season started. You cannot just ignore those issues, so I don't see it of value to ignore mental health.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#46

Post by tpatke »

I wonder how this relates to the "entrepreneurial selection process".

According to PG [1]:

- hard work is necessary but insufficient

- entrepreneurs either have a very high probability of success or "epsilon".

- it is easy to know (or find out) what group you are in.

PG makes a strong argument...but then, so does this guy from MIT. Maybe they are talking about different things? Is intelligence more important for a startup founder then it is for a kid at MIT?

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3392049

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#47

Post by martincmartin »

There's research behind this too. The book NurtureShock has a chapter on telling kids "you're smart" vs. "you worked hard." There was even some HN discussion on it. Basically, when you attribute your kids accomplishments to their being smart, they kind of freeze up when they get a problem they can't handle. But when you attribute it to hard work, they work harder to figure it out. There are a series of fascinating experiments that bare this out.

For people into parenting books, I highly recommend NurtureShock. It's about the only parenting book I've found based on actual scientific research, as opposed to being somebody's opinion.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#48

Post by mikedmiked »

tpatke wrote: post #46

I wonder how this relates to the "entrepreneurial selection process". According to PG [1]: - hard work is necessary but insufficient - entrepreneurs either have a very high probability of success or "epsilon". - it is easy to know (or find out) what group you are in. PG makes a strong argument...but then, so does this guy from MIT. Maybe they are talking about different things? Is intelligence more important for a st…

The exact "work you need to do" is pretty much given to you when you do a degree. If you work hard on it and complete it all then it is hard not to succeed.

When doing a start-up or in the "real world" you can easily fill up time with work which is not actually directing you towards your ultimate goal(s).

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#50

Post by gexla »

tpatke wrote: post #46

I wonder how this relates to the "entrepreneurial selection process". According to PG [1]: - hard work is necessary but insufficient - entrepreneurs either have a very high probability of success or "epsilon". - it is easy to know (or find out) what group you are in. PG makes a strong argument...but then, so does this guy from MIT. Maybe they are talking about different things? Is intelligence more important for a st…

Learning to code and actually coding are much like dealing with difficult courses. You work hard and you have to know how to find the knowledge you need.

Being an entrepreneur is entirely different. You need to work hard, but there are a lot of things which aren't so linear. It's kind of like picking up chicks. Hard work and being smart doesn't help you there. ;)

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