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Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

kcrw.com

101–110 of 376 posts

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this not the easiest decision in the world? Unfortunately wealthy established homeowners don't want more people to near to them so they vote against any and all change. Welp! This is why higher orders of government need to step in to "force" municipalities to enact some of these sorts of policy changes you describe. This gives the local municipalities cover to enact the good policies that the selfish rich wo…

Unfortunately wealthy established homeowners don't want more people to near to them so they vote against any and all change. Yes, combined with useful idiot "anti-gentrification" activists who have convinced themselves that the concept of supply and demand is a capitalist myth.

Useful idiot is a great term for this.

It's ironic that the same people who want to prevent gentrification are the actual "bootlickers" after all. I ended up leaving San Francisco over this sort of stuff to go to my hometown with a cheaper cost of living.

Here in Louisville, we have fewer things going on than most metros. Yet every time a new apartment complex comes up a good amount of people scream bloody murder that it will raise rents unless 30% of it is marked "below market rate". This causes developers to spend their time building elsewhere, so that new options don't emerge to drive down rents. The city is objectively less wealthy than most other metros in the USA.

Nobody has ever said "stop farming, all that food is allowing more people to live, and now food is more expensive", yet they will repeat it time and time again with housing. Instead they correctly think, "farm more, if we get more people on Earth they can help us farm even more food. Also we can finally have enough people to have doctors."

Funny enough my state has 80% of the doctors per capita that California has, and 60% of the doctors per capita that New York has[1].

It's very frustrating to see people here fighting to stunt growth, and force their own young out to nearby cities with more open minds that let people make choices. For example, the state is debating between prioritizing poorly allocated pensions and lowering our tax rate. We're currently committed to lowering the income tax from 5% to 0% over 10 years but it's continually framed as theft to benefit the wealthy by opponents. Meanwhile Tennessee and Texas continue to have a 0% income tax and take our children and new businesses. The limited job market + wages and new business formations here reflect this. Everyone thinks of Kentucky as a poor state - people don't know we have one of the higher tax rates as well.

The only thing these anti-growthers are accomplishing is making sure the same elites who made these people's lives meek stay relatively powerful by upholding the very structures that enrich the elites. Maybe the elites are the ones driving the conversation?

I know I'm soapboxing here but wealth, a clean environment, ample jobs, and the ability for your own children to make a living in your region is as much a choice as anything else in this life. I'm thankful that San Francisco chose to let jobs develop there, but sad they chose not to allow me to settle there. I proudly work remotely for a CA company, and hope other states can copy the choices CA made to allow businesses and workers to flourish, and learn from their mistakes which are currently sending them away.

If you choose to stop chaining your neighbor good things will flow.

[1] https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/workforce/this-state-h...

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, just average people, who built the community over time into something desirable, that were promised with zoning laws that it would be the type of community (single family homes, etc) that they wanted, and that then dedicated the majority of their lifetime earning power to purchase a home there. There are how many acres of land in this country? Why do you have a right to overrule the will of people in one comparat…

> No, just average people, who built the community over time into something desirable, that were promised with zoning laws that it would be the type of community (single family homes, etc) that they wanted, and that then dedicated the majority of their lifetime earning power to purchase a home there. No one was promised that the zoning laws wouldn't someday change. Maybe what's really needed is a complete repeal of p…

You are welcome to put a repeal of Proposition 13 on the next ballot. All it takes is a $2000 fee and some signed petitions. https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-measures/how-qualify...

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this not the easiest decision in the world? Unfortunately wealthy established homeowners don't want more people to near to them so they vote against any and all change. Welp! This is why higher orders of government need to step in to "force" municipalities to enact some of these sorts of policy changes you describe. This gives the local municipalities cover to enact the good policies that the selfish rich wo…

No, just average people, who built the community over time into something desirable, that were promised with zoning laws that it would be the type of community (single family homes, etc) that they wanted, and that then dedicated the majority of their lifetime earning power to purchase a home there. There are how many acres of land in this country? Why do you have a right to overrule the will of people in one comparat…

No one in San Francisco today built it to what it is. That city hasn’t changed in any substantial way since before 1960.

It’s long been coasting off its past success.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#104
post #86
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's both. There's an unholy alliance between the two.

Why would renters want property values (and therefore rents) to go up due to a lack of supply?

People who live in rent-controlled apartments seem to be against gentrification, as they end up losing their rent-controlled apartments for new construction.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#105
post #53

When people talk about "homelessness," they're often referring to street people. Most technically homeless people aren't street people, they're between jobs or living in their car or something like that. It seems clear that lower rent/housing prices would help with homelessness but I don't think it would help street people.

To further your point, the U of Chicago recently released a report that around 50 percent of homeless individuals are employed.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#106

Imagine you're a municipality like San Francisco. You control all of the zoning regulations, and many of the permitting requirements. You have a AA+ credit rating, and even in today's higher rate environment, you can borrow billions of dollars at 6%. You already own oodles of land. You can build to whatever height you want within reason, because you control the zoning, and you even control many of the ordinances that…

What a goofy statement.

How much land does San Francisco truly own that isn't already used for an essential purpose? Are you encouraging them to turn the parks or schools into housing? That's not going to make SF an attractive community.

Are you encouraging them to use eminent domain to out existing single-family homeowners? That's really not going to go well.

Assuming that you raze the parks and schools and seize single-family homes to build high-density rentals as you suggest, the average life span in the US is 77 years. Assuming people still leave the house at 18, that's 59 years of renting... if those people choose not to buy elsewhere, given that you've razed the parks and the schools.

I don't think you understand how hamstrung San Francisco is in regards to the amount of available land it could actually develop.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#107

Imagine you're a municipality like San Francisco. You control all of the zoning regulations, and many of the permitting requirements. You have a AA+ credit rating, and even in today's higher rate environment, you can borrow billions of dollars at 6%. You already own oodles of land. You can build to whatever height you want within reason, because you control the zoning, and you even control many of the ordinances that…

> How is this not the easiest decision in the world? Unfortunately wealthy established homeowners don't want more people to near to them so they vote against any and all change. Welp! This is why higher orders of government need to step in to "force" municipalities to enact some of these sorts of policy changes you describe. This gives the local municipalities cover to enact the good policies that the selfish rich wo…

> Unfortunately wealthy established homeowners don't want more people to near to them so they vote against any and all change.

Sometimes poor established renters also don't want change.

In the 20th century a lot of cities grew practically 'out of nowhere'. Why has that stopped? That's a great pressure relief valve and gets new buyers/renters out of a vicious feedback loop caused by the tendency of already cash-or-property-rich people to concentrate resources.

"The opportunity/jobs are there" is historically the answer, for millennia of cities. But does it have to be that forever? In the 20th century US, there were a lot of explicit government interventions and such that caused things like the defense industry to sprawl across countless different states and counterbalance it. What would that look like in a post-2020 world?

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve just become negatively polarized into supporting gentrification at this point. Seems like the alternative is crime ridden, blighted cities without amenities.

Well yes, but why "negatively polarized"? Gentrification is just a somewhat derogatory word for "amenities that attract people to want to live in the area". It doesn't have to mean increased prices; that will depend on how easy it is to build real-estate there. A place can be perfectly "gentrified" in the amenities sense and be just a quaint, high-density town or neighborhood with average or even low housing costs.

I agree, that’s what I support it to be!

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obviously both. If you're a heroin addict in West Virginia you just rent a trailer with a revolving list of fellow addicts for like $400 month and you beg or steal enough to get by. Plus, you're in a part of town where nobody is really going to notice you. That doesn't work in San Francisco. So did the heroin make you homeless or the high prices? It's kind of a silly question. It's both, in some sense. That's wh…

But my question is - if you can't pay rent in LA, what draws you to set up camp in skid row? Why add that burden of living there on top of everything else you're dealing with?

Originally, Skid Row was where the railroad tracks ended. Now it is where the social services providers are clustered.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#110
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> government is run by and for the benefit of the established land owners Do San Francisco’s renters fail to turn out to vote? (Serious question.)

Yes, they very much do. The voter turnout gap by housing tenure is about 20 percentage points (e.g. 70% turnout for owners and 50% for renters). Also the voter registration gap is massive because many renters are not eligible to vote or face hurdles registering due to lack of permanent address. Finally, the people who would benefit from new housing construction in a place like San Francisco are often registered to vo…

And lower income people are far more likely to be renters than landowners. Lower income jobs are less likely to provide time off to vote. Even if mail-in voting is allowed such low-income jobs are also less likely to provide time off to attend city council meetings or public hearings or other such things.
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