The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z • Hacker News Board

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#881

Post by schwartzworld » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 6:59 PM UTC

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #761

MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only on HN would this be so highly upvoted. Most electricians and plumbers are doing commercial work or residential construction. The plumbers and electricians doing house calls are a tiny portion of their business. And before YouTube university people were just as handy and could figure it out by going down to the local hardware store and talking to someone rather than ordering it on Amazon and watching a YouTube vi…

People used to have parents that taught them things abs how to deal with home maintenance.

Lol, I never saw my father with a wrench in his hand, except maybe when he took of my training wheels.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#882

Post by prottog » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 7:10 PM UTC

rco8786 wrote: post #467

prottog wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I grant that the life I described is perhaps not aspirational for anybody born and raised in a first-world country in the last 30 years or so. (I know many from other backgrounds whose idea of unimaginable wealth is exactly that.) But if it's not an ass-busting outcome, would you say it's a middling outcome? Or the most minimal outcome that anyone should have, regardless of how hard they work? What makes you say…

Statistically it is maybe a median level outcome. Maybe. If you’re okay with your kids going to the worst public schools, living in an area with little to no amenities, shopping thrift stores, etc as a trade off to owning your home outright (which itself as a goal is dubious anyhow). And yea obviously wealth is relative. But to anyone accustomed to living in a reasonably developed country what you’re describing is no…

I'm doubling down because you haven't offered an explanation of what your counterfactual is. As best as I can guess, are implying that were something to be different, the outcomes will be different, whether that is that people who bust their ass will become truly wealthy (which again, you have not defined) or perhaps that people who don't bust their ass will also be better off.

I want to know what that something is, in what way it should be different, and why you think that difference will lead to the difference in outcomes you anticipate.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#883

Post by prottog » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 7:15 PM UTC

AngryData wrote: post #662

prottog wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where GP's old employer was located, but it sounds like it's in a low cost-of-living area, the kind where homes can be had for under $100k. Earn $50-60k a year, pay off your house in maybe ten years instead of thirty, save a little each month and invest and let it compound over time; at the end you could have enough for a comfortable retirement and maybe even have some left over to hand down to your chil…

I don't know where you live but in my poor as hell area (12 an hour is considered decent pay), $100K doesn't really get you that much anymore. That is like the bare minimum for a lot in the trees and a small and poorly insulated 2 bedroom house. 15 years ago it might not have been so bad. But now you would get a run down shack on a tiny plot of land and you are living in a poor as hell area deep in the sticks where t…

I'm in a midsize city in the Gulf Coast region. Not exactly the boonies (though that is very accessible from where I am), and not exactly a bustling metro. One can buy a serviceable house under $100k in a not-so-great part of town. $12 an hour is a little under what people would consider decent pay here.

Your area seems to have a particularly disadvantaged income to home value ratio. Is there some other factor involved? From what I understand parts of Montana, for example, are like that, where there is no economic base to support higher wages but nonetheless the natural beauty of the area drives up home prices from out-of-town buying and whatnot.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#884

Post by nemo44x » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 7:53 PM UTC

Bloating wrote: post #472

nemo44x wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem with it all, tradesmen are all too eager to undercut each other for some reason. There's so much work, especially for trades that require a license that anyone that isn't charging premium money is a fool. And there's lots of foolish tradesmen with short term thinking and eager to sell their services as a low price option. Often with low price work to boot. You rarely see older guys going for cheap…

Free market competition should be outlawed! Collusion should be legal. Unless I don't like your virtue signals, then you're a greedy capitalist robber baron!

I'm not saying anything about that. What I'm saying is a decent amount of tradesmen don't know what they are worth and undercharge. In most instances it's because they underestimate the scope of the job they're taking on and are eager to get business. But business is generally easy to get in non-recession times and they could bid higher and still win jobs. It's often inexperienced guys and it's why you see so many startup construction/trade companies go out of business quickly. There's business - they just don't know how to run one.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#885

Post by rednerrus » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 8:16 PM UTC

gradys wrote: post #196

rednerrus wrote: post #181

It is disheartening to see a recurring theme of individuals expressing frustration over their inability to afford a home or advance in society, yet also expressing reluctance to engage in activities that could potentially bring financial stability. Our predecessors sacrificed their physical well-being in order to construct and maintain the infrastructure and amenities that we now benefit from. In order to maintain a…

People not wanting to work is not the main reason we’re seeing more people find housing unaffordable. It’s the extreme rise in price of housing relative to income. I make dramatically more than my parents did when they were buying their first house around my age, but as a fraction of my income and savings, housing costs vastly more. (It’s also not clear that the skilled trades jobs Gen Z apparently doesn’t want actua…

Here are the most reliable numbers I could come up with:

1990(Q1) average home price $124,000

2020(Q1) average home price $329,000

1990 average interest rate 9%

2020 average interest rate 3%

1990 average monthly mortgage payment $998

2020 average monthly mortgage payment $1387

1990 Average Wage Index (AWI): $21,027.98

2020 Average Wage Index (AWI): $55,628.60

1990 average monthly mortgage as a percentage of AWI 4.7%

2020 average monthly mortgage as a percentage of AWI 2.5%

I'm stopping pre-covid as it doesn't seem like the real estate market has not had time to figure out the rapidly increasing interest/AWI rates.

All of the numbers are based on US numbers.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#886

Post by ryanSrich » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

cagmz wrote: post #750

ryanSrich wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah same here. My dryer stopped working. Had someone come out and tell me the heating element and thermostat needed replacing. $275 for the part, $250 for the labor. That’s a $525 for a $650 dryer. Not worth it. I bought a complete heating element and thermostat kit on Amazon for $29. After a few YouTube videos and about an hour and a half, I had it fixed.

Did they charge to diagnose the issue?

They did not. All they did was turn the dryer on to see if any heat was produced. The dryer spun and seemed like it was working, but no heat. So they said heating element and or thermostat. They replace both as a precaution.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#887

Post by ryanSrich » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 9:25 PM UTC

uberduper wrote: post #756

cagmz wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they charge to diagnose the issue?

Diagnosing a busted heating element and/or thermostat and/or fuse requires the answer to like two questions. Does it produce heat while it's running? Is it a Samsung? Okay maybe just one question. The $29 heating element comes with a new thermostat and fuse so you just replace them all regardless.

Exactly. Yep, Samsung. Only a 4 year old dryer too, with good upkeep.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#888

Post by antihero » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote: post #822

antihero wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideal career would be a split between office and physical work. 3 days coding, 2 days carpentry etc.

Or cycle commute 20 miles a day to work.

It’s cold and I work from home :/

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#889

Post by pwthornton » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #174

joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

I think some wires are getting crossed here. It has been a long time since you could truly get any degree, and everything would work. That's honestly more of a Boomer and before thing when college graduates were sparse (and off jobs weren't that common).

It is certainly true, and probably still true, if you go to a truly elite school that any degree will do (consulting will hire any young grad from a top school with good grades), but it has been a long time since you could get any degree from any school. People are badly misinformed if they think you can go to a third-tier state school, get poor grades in a random major, and have an easy time making a lot of money.

I started college in 2002 for frame of reference.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#890

Post by pwthornton » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #260

falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

I'm not sure how your body parts wear out. Football players ruin their bodies through accumulated injuries, not wearing their bodies out. Do athletes wear their bodies out? I've never heard of that. How does doing plumbing/electricioning wear your body out?

Football players bodies do wear out, but most just lose too much speed and athleticism before it truly happens.

Joe Thomas, one of the greatest left tackles of all time, retired because he was going to need a new knee. His back also had a lot of issues. Losing a bunch of weight has allowed him to put off some of the surgeries, but he said his knee was bone on bone by the end.