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Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

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Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#111

Post by robertlagrant »

techpression wrote: post #80
leerob wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share more? With Middleware, you can run any arbitrary code to control routing: https://twitter.com/nextjs/status/1610663442825854980 . And with the `app` directory (beta), we're reimagining the Next.js routing system from the ground up: https://beta.nextjs.org/docs/routing/fundamentals .

Not the author but for me it’s insane that the router doesn’t do http routing on verbs but rather leave it to be repeatedly reimplemented in every single page (and the fact that you can’t do simple things like what’s been available in rails for over a decade with resources).

Can you give an example of routing based on verbs?

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#112

Post by thiht »

paulsmith wrote: post #22
savolai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Finnish. The caret is not always easy to type in my experience on international keyboards. Not sure what the added value is of creating yet another convention here, as there are so many already with each new templating language.

That's good feedback, thank you. My US-centric eye didn't consider that.

Same on a French keyboard, trying to type `^if {` will result in `îf {`

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#113

Post by robertlagrant »

leerob wrote: post #65
robertlagrant wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. It's a tradeoff either way - ergonomics for common cases or not. I imagine in your case you're constructing lots of custom logic anyway, whether it's in an API gateway (or similar) component to put the auth logic before the application, or put the logic in some before_request handler in the web application.

Curious if you're explored the new `app` directory (beta), which includes a new routing system in Next.js? Open to feedback: https://beta.nextjs.org/docs/routing/fundamentals

I haven't, but I've just had a read. It looks well thought through and opinionated, which is what I'd expect and want from NextJS.

Time will tell if it misses a load of cases, but I can't think of any. I'm not doing any UI work at the moment, and while I wanted to introduce NextJS to my new team's new project, we tried it but couldn't get it to work with our slightly tricky component tech (StencilJS). I think that's a StencilJS ReactJS issue rather than a StencilJS NextJS issue, though.

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#114

Post by smoyer »

This is really cool - so cool that I hate to be a naysayer. We used to build pages this way and to a large degree moved away from this practice because the applications became to hard to test. At the other end of the spectrum is "Passive View" which allows for testing of the business logic and easy mocking of the view - https://martinfowler.com/eaaDev/PassiveScreen.html.

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#115

Post by geenat »

jerf wrote: post #27
paulsmith wrote: post #2

Pushup creator here. We're interested in feedback on the design. Pushup introduces a new lightweight template syntax that mixes Go code and HTML in the same page; pages are then compiled down to pure Go, relying on the net/http package. Pushup uses file-based routing, so adding a page adds a route to your app. The template language has an "inline partials" feature to make it easier support for modern hypermedia libra…

"Pushup uses file-based routing, so adding a page adds a route to your app." Make sure to have a clean way of escaping that and having some richer concept of how to route. This was the original way routing worked, back in the ASP (not ASP.net, the predecessor), CGI, original PHP days. We moved away from it for good reasons. It works well early but has scaling problems over time. I'm not saying don't have it as a defa…

>It works well early but has scaling problems over time.

How?

Otherwise calling this out as cargo cult. As I remember the main reason we moved to app routing is because of the single process nature of non-blocking async code which was popularized with node / express.

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#116

Post by techpression »

robertlagrant wrote: post #111
techpression wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the author but for me it’s insane that the router doesn’t do http routing on verbs but rather leave it to be repeatedly reimplemented in every single page (and the fact that you can’t do simple things like what’s been available in rails for over a decade with resources).

Can you give an example of routing based on verbs?

https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/routing.html

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#117

Post by moltar »

robertlagrant wrote: post #39
jerf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pushup uses file-based routing, so adding a page adds a route to your app." Make sure to have a clean way of escaping that and having some richer concept of how to route. This was the original way routing worked, back in the ASP (not ASP.net, the predecessor), CGI, original PHP days. We moved away from it for good reasons. It works well early but has scaling problems over time. I'm not saying don't have it as a defa…

I have the same instinct (JSP / JSF had the same concept) but I must say, making pages as files in next.js is really nice. You can have all your dynamism within them, but having a simple way to do overall routing is lovely.

I honestly don’t get all the file routing hype. How hard is it to setup a React Router? It’s like a few lines of code and you get a massively flexible setup, without any lock-in.

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#118

Post by hlandau »

paulsmith wrote: post #11
teejays wrote: post #6

It's a nice idea. I'm going to dig a little deeper in the design and developer experience choices. That being said, I am a little curious -- what is the intended use case here? The reason I am asking is because I've been doing lots of web-development, with Go as a primary backend lang, for the last 9 years but never have I seriously felt the need to do serve the UI from Go. I guess there is some advantage reducing n…

The imagined use-case for Pushup is the same niche that Rails, Django, and Flask apps occupy, which is a wide range but broadly I would describe as page-oriented, HTML-first, server-side frontends. I started Pushup because I asked myself, I like programming in Go and think (like you) it's great for web backends - but what is holding it back from being a great full-stack web dev language or environment? net/http is a…

As the author of the above article I saw Pushup the other day and thought it looked interesting. If people are being inspired to bring back this sort of approach to webdev that makes me happy. Good stuff!

It's still a hard rule of mine that a website must work without JS and use progressive enhancement - I won't accept less in my own work. A lot of "modern" web frameworks get automatically disqualified when I evaluate them for this reason.

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#119

Post by robertlagrant »

techpression wrote: post #116
robertlagrant wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of routing based on verbs?

https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/routing.html

Understood. This I think is a slightly different way of making a web application - NextJS is built on REST calls and client-side view changes.

If I've understood correctly, your Phoenix example is more like traditional full page request response programming, where you can post a form and get back a whole new web page. Phoenix no doubt has magic to make the whole page not reload, but point being that I think a lot of NextJS's target users are developers who come from a REST + SPA background, and wouldn't think to send some data and get a changed view back. They'd send some data, maybe get a response, update their client side data store and their view would change automatically.

Re: Pushup: a new compiler for making web apps in Go

#120

Post by techpression »

robertlagrant wrote: post #119
techpression wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/routing.html

Understood. This I think is a slightly different way of making a web application - NextJS is built on REST calls and client-side view changes. If I've understood correctly, your Phoenix example is more like traditional full page request response programming, where you can post a form and get back a whole new web page. Phoenix no doubt has magic to make the whole page not reload, but point being that I think a lot of…

It works the same for JSON/REST in Phoenix though, you don’t have to concern yourself if it’s a GET or PATCH because the correct function has already been called from the router.
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