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Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

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Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#481

Post by lll-o-lll »

778hbff wrote: post #457
lll-o-lll wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Australia. From the outside (and this could well be the wrong take), it seems as though “at will employment” leads to cultural problems. People are afraid to speak their mind, and hierarchy becomes dominant. I like that Australia is a bit more egalitarian, and people can “speak truth to power”.

Having worked salary jobs in tech in both countries, I can tell you that hierarchies are a much bigger thing in Germany than in the U.S. In tech companies as well as in academia, FWIW. Her Professor, Herr Direktor, these are actually still a thing in Germany.

I have worked in UK/Aus and for US owned/run and French owned/run (from aus) and aus owned/run (and others, I’m getting old). There definitely seemed to be a cultural difference with US based employees being much more reluctant to say anything negative (but this may have been nothing to do with at-will). I had assumed this was because they were afraid of losing their jobs by pissing off the wrong person, but it may well be something else entirely causing that.

In Australia, you have the opposite problem of randoms going “that’ll never work” to a CEO (which is not exactly endearing).

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#482

Post by midoridensha »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #473
midoridensha wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I haven't worked there, but I got the impression going back decades that Amazon is a terrible place to work. That said, I have a friend who worked there and had really only positive things to say. I've heard the same thing about them. I think it's a place where certain kinds of people like to work, for a while, because it pays well and looks great on a resume, and they don't mind working long hours to do that kind o…

When I worked there, it was a hell of a lot less stressful than the startups I'd worked for before that, where the company was always just a couple of months away from disaster. Once I picked up Financial Independence habits, my life was a breeze (even though the job itself was a techno-bureaucratic nightmare straight out of a Dilbert strip)

Well, yes, I'd consider most startups to be the most stressful type of workplace you could possibly work at as a SWE.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#483

Post by Falkon1313 »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #352
andirk wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder how people who are only in the room when things happen have any pride in their work and aren't embarrassed at their lack of production. A couple jobs ago was people who put most of their effort in to making sure their group of shitty engineers wasn't found out. It was a lot of work! Since they were all about quantity of people over any quality, they had to keep hiring more people, so there was a lot o…

I’ve never understood the people who make no effort to better themselves - they work in technology, everything has a 3-5 year engineering life, they should always be preparing for the next thing. People often can’t control what technologies their employer uses, but if they have solid fundamentals and I can tell they have tried to learn things on their own, more often then not I’ll give them a chance, and it usually w…

Sure there's a market for cheap disposable stuff hastily thrown together by people who barely know what they're doing because they're always using the latest tools for the first time to pad their resume.

But there's also a place for durable things of lasting value, built by people who enjoy perfecting their skills, technique, and craftsmanship with mature tools to solve problems well, learn the domain well, and build lasting relationships with customers who are big spenders.

It's kind of naive to assume that those people are making no effort to better themselves just because they're not always chasing after the latest hot new thing.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#484

Post by jjav »

ogre_battle wrote: post #446
silisili wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly 20 years ago, when I was trying to find HR for my first day, there was an older man talking with them already. He said, and I quote, 'Fuck you all, I got your exit interview right here' while grabbing his crotch. He turned to walk away, smirked at me, and said 'what? I'm retired now.' Point being, I don't think you were the only one who didn't love the company 10 years ago.

Plenty of folks didn't, but even in the 90s and 2000s there was still a good reason to play ball, esp. if you were in a white collar STEM field. Dude might have grabbed his crotch on the way out, but he probably made $$$$$ for 20-30 years. Modern hires deal with just as much BS but often for lower pay and less long-term stability.

> Modern hires deal with just as much BS but often for lower pay and less long-term stability.

New hires in tech these days make much much higher wages, inflation adjusted, than ever in the past. Stability is down, granted, though it was never great.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#485

Post by Firmwarrior »

midoridensha wrote: post #482
Firmwarrior wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked there, it was a hell of a lot less stressful than the startups I'd worked for before that, where the company was always just a couple of months away from disaster. Once I picked up Financial Independence habits, my life was a breeze (even though the job itself was a techno-bureaucratic nightmare straight out of a Dilbert strip)

Well, yes, I'd consider most startups to be the most stressful type of workplace you could possibly work at as a SWE.

yeah, I'm just worried that someone is going to avoid Amazon because they think their $120k startup job is less stressful

To be fair, the startup jobs I had weren't that stressful either. I was in a comfortable indoor environment with a nice computer and reasonable work-life balance. Way nicer jobs than working at a restaurant or something

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#486

Post by ProllyInfamous »

oars wrote: post #469
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #365

In October, after mentioning to the neighbor plumber friend that massive tech layoffs would be arriving just in time for Christmas, he told me that he did not really care what happens to tech workers because "people will always need a good plumber." Tonight, same plumber friend told me that his company's workflow has gone from ~50 hrs/wk to 30hrs/wk — and that includes "organizing the company truck." He now understan…

Fascinating. I assume you and your plumber friend live in an area dominated by tech jobs? E.g. Seattle?

I live on one of Chattanooga's wealthier mountaintops; most of my neighbors are retired small business owners. Any neighbors my age [late 30s] are WFH techies.

I myself rent (because of a unique arrangement) for about half of what a mortgage would be. There are a few crappier houses up here, with a few blue collars left (I am a trained electrician, IBEW).

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#487

Post by htkibar »

capitalsigma wrote: post #388
rob74 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even think "pain to keep employees" is the right word here - Amazon for instance is still highly profitable, it's just that the profits went down a bit (which is to be expected if the economy is worse). But they're still laying off people just to make the bottom line look even better...

Believe it or not, Amazon is not a charity. I don't know why you expect them to hold on to employees who are evidently a loss to their bottom line.

Your argument is flawed. Reactionary firing tends to be inefficient, but makes shareholders happy on the short term.

Should a company prioritise shareholder happiness over efficiency is the real question here. Their losses don’t originate from these employees nor initiatives; it originates from market conditions.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#488

Post by htkibar »

marcodave wrote: post #447
spoils19 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I personally have seen divorces and breakdowns of entire families and friend groups of my colleagues, but what is most important is making sure that they stay up-to-date with the latest technologies and look to further improve themselves for the company.

spoils19 has been awarded +200 corp tokens, congratulations!

Dystopias happening right in front of us!

Or… am I hearing a new web3 startup?

(If I ever end up doing this; this comment will age super well)

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#489

Post by htkibar »

robofanatic wrote: post #182
i_have_an_idea wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no opinion on the MBA bit, but I think you're spot on about people starting to treat companies the way the companies are treating them. ~10 years ago, when I got my first job, I was in the minority, pretty much the only person cynical about big companies' claims how "people are our most important resource", how important is the company "culture" and all of that corporate kumbaya. And, at that point, the vast m…

well salaries also went up significantly in the last decade as per levels.fyi Senior Principal SDE at Amazon makes about a million $$$. Entry level salary is $168K https://www.levels.fyi/companies/amazon/salaries/software-en...

Inflation is a thing you know?

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#490

Post by bumby »

johnfn wrote: post #130
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are seeing a bit of a market downturn - but it hasn’t hit Amazon pocketbook now, has it? Are they in danger of running out of money? What happened to “people are our most important resource”? Companies plan for where the market is going, not last quarter’s results. It’s fully clear to everyone that the economy has shifted dramatically. They are adjusting as appropriate. Also, these people will be laid off with s…

> Companies plan for where the market is going, not last quarter’s results. It’s fully clear to everyone that the economy has shifted dramatically. They are adjusting as appropriate. It goes both ways. If you planned so poorly and hired so fast that a minor perturbation in the market causes you to fire 17,000 people, you're still communicating that you putting profits above people.

>minor perturbation

What are you defining as a "minor perturbation"? Because if they're responding to the last 12 mos., the NASDAQ is down 33%. Definitely not minor.

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