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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#521

Post by WalterBright »

karaterobot wrote: post #363
WalterBright wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were one man shops. 20 years ago, the going rate for installing a socket in an existing wired and ready to go junction box was $50. It's about a 5 minute job. I know it's about 5 minutes because I've done a lot of them myself. I'm sure prices have gone up a lot in the last couple decades.

One thing about contractors is that you're paying them for the time they aren't working. As in, they're probably not working steadily, 40 hours a week, every week, but they still have bills to pay, and this down time must be factored into their rates for the profession to be sustainable. On the other hand, if they DO work 40 hours a week, every single week, they can probably afford to raise their rates... Have not be…

As a programmer who sometimes does contract work, I know how that works.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#522

Post by Mezzie »

cudgy wrote: post #111
oceanplexian wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitting pipes together is not "back breaking". We're not talking about framing or roofing, in the contracting world plumbing is a light duty skilled trade that anyone with half a brain can earn a 6-figure income on. If you take care of yourself and wear protective equipment, you won't have a problem with your knees in middle age. There's no "forced retirement", someone working as an independent contractor for 25 year…

Try crawling around in a 2 foot high crawl space amongst spiders and snakes while ripping out old, stinky, dripping plumbing with a sabre saw or arc welder and tell yourself it is not “back breaking” or dangerous.

Also bonus asbestos and fibreglass! (Yes, obviously wear protective equipment, but that shit travels and gets on things.)

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#523

Post by thisisnico »

thedaly wrote: post #516
rybosworld wrote: post #503

"Youtube university" has most definitely had an effect. Particularly in regards to the lack of pay increase in the trades. My toilet is leaking? 10 years ago I'd call a plumber. Now I diagnose the problem and determine if it's within my skill level to learn the repair (it usually is). For me, this wouldn't be feasible without online how-to videos. A plumber/carpenter/electrician will charge me $50-$100/hr for work th…

I work at a union plumbing company in a major metro area and union plumbers make very good money here (100k+). We aren’t losing any business to YouTube. We only do service for commercial businesses, and the house engineer isn’t going out of the way to do any more work than what is absolutely necessary. You will still need a plumber if you do a large remodel or new construction. Good on you for learning how to do more…

Couldn't agree more.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#524

Post by SilasX »

dionidium wrote: post #174
joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

You’re asking why high school students trusted a guidance counselor over the wisdom found in jokes?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#525

Post by WalterBright »

quartesixte wrote: post #484
WalterBright wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it isn't the same thing. Just like crashing your car isn't the same thing as wearing it out.

As you age your ability to recover from wear and tear decreases and even without catastrophic injury it will catch up to you eventually.

Jack Lalane worked out into his 90s. Death finally put a stop to it.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#526

Post by pwarner »

rybosworld wrote: post #503

"Youtube university" has most definitely had an effect. Particularly in regards to the lack of pay increase in the trades. My toilet is leaking? 10 years ago I'd call a plumber. Now I diagnose the problem and determine if it's within my skill level to learn the repair (it usually is). For me, this wouldn't be feasible without online how-to videos. A plumber/carpenter/electrician will charge me $50-$100/hr for work th…

I ended up paying "professionals" to install some vinyl flooring in my house. They were making like 5 of the top 10 mistakes from the YouTube video I had watched the night before. I had to correct them, which was awkward since they had been installing floors for 15 years, supposedly...

YouTube changes things for sure, although I am unsure if that's the cause of fewer folks going into the trades. Demand over all seems higher than ever in my area. Very hard to get good trades people, or even bad ones a year ago!

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#527

Post by Karrot_Kream »

WalterBright wrote: post #487
2devnull wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Cumulative load wrecks you in the long run. Consider how many weightlifters end up with multiple back surgeries. They got stronger for awhile, then they couldn’t walk.

I've been running for 40 years, and lifting for 15. Lifting has virtually eliminated my back pain. Strengthening the muscles helps a lot in preventing injury. No, I'm not lifting 400 lbs. Weightlifters lift insane weights, does that compare to what physical laborers lift?

The problem is the conditions under which they lift. If you lift weights, you're probably watching your form and taking rests in between your sets. On a jobsite, you're being forced to bring those bricks or that heavy tool over ASAP, and nobody is going to let you get into proper deadlift form. While OSHA standards exist, most companies and techs are just skirting by because of the margins in the business. There's a lot of pressure to get things done fast so they'll fuck up form just to get things done that little bit faster.

I'm a cyclist and a lot of other cyclists are ex-runners whose joints are shot from running. They prefer to cycle because it's easier on the joints but it offers the same headspace as a long run. I also do some climbing and frequently hurt my joints (shoulder and elbow are frequent ones, wrist from time-to-time.) I have lots of friends who also climb who have had to take short or even long breaks from climbing due to the effects on their joints. Lifting on a jobsite is more dynamic than weightlifting and closer to climbing.

It's not about actually wearing out your joints (which can probably take crazy amounts of load and stress over years if you use correct form and rest appropriately), it's more accumulated injury from incentives to use bad form.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#528

Post by WalterBright »

cityofdelusion wrote: post #377
WalterBright wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how your body parts wear out. Football players ruin their bodies through accumulated injuries, not wearing their bodies out. Do athletes wear their bodies out? I've never heard of that. How does doing plumbing/electricioning wear your body out?

Not all injuries are at a gross level. Tendons and muscles get micro tears, cartilage gets worn down into mush, bones get tiny fractures. The human body repairs the best it can, but there’s a reason so many older tradesmen have bad backs, bad knees, degenerative arthritis and so on. Not to mention major injuries are still a big risk factor. Broken fingers, destroyed shoulder joints, missing fingernails, deep burns, s…

Why do I not hear this happening with, say, the older set running triathlons?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#529

Post by [deleted] »

vl wrote: post #515
falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

But you are doing exactly same stuff as software developer - sitting all day at computer is not healthy for body or mind either.

[deleted]

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#530

Post by gruez »

vl wrote: post #515
falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

But you are doing exactly same stuff as software developer - sitting all day at computer is not healthy for body or mind either.

You can mitigate that by taking frequent breaks, and getting a standing desk. How can you mitigate wear to your body while working for the trades?
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