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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#421

Post by yamtaddle »

ryandrake wrote: post #235
dionidium wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

Same. Early '90s. Nobody was telling us "any degree will do". They were saying "You should go to college, and if you do , major in computer science, engineering, pre-med, biotech, (sometimes) business, and so on." I remember that as a pretty consistent message during high school career guidance talks and through freshman and sophomore years in college.

It was common advice for maybe a 5-year span in the 00s. It was born and died pretty quickly, but did more than a little harm in that time. Trouble was, it was kinda true when people started saying it, but wasn't true anymore by the time the people who receive that advice were graduating.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#422

Post by exabrial »

UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

> He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation

He is working for the wrong people! I was given the option for both when I was in the trades, and I wasn't even part of a union!

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#423

Post by modoc »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #150
modoc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you finding small wage plumbers or carpenters? All the trades here (plumbing, electrical, HVAC, carpentry (perhaps more on the finish side vs framing though) are extremely expensive, with hourly rates between $80-$150/hour. (source - did a lot of renovations on my house, and my BIL is an electrician).

Lol, the tradesman isn't taking that home. Neither is the apprentice that probably is doing half the work.

I'm mostly using small companies where it's the owner and maybe his son or 1-2 employees doing the work. Likewise my BIL has his own company that's just him and his best friend. So yeah those guys are all taking 100% of the rate. Granted they have to pay taxes and insurance, and all that like I do, but they're doing well overall.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#424

Post by 2devnull »

ffwacom wrote: post #385
falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

My dad was an electrician his whole life, retired at 65 still going out to job sites.

If he was union or in an area with a strong union he may not be the one going into crawl spaces and doing more physically damaging work. And electrical is probably the best trade in terms of physical wear and tear, maybe hvac too.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#425

Post by candiddevmike »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #400
nerdponx wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the cost of not having a social safety net and public services, where everybody pays a little bit and everybody benefits. It's not just the people who are self-employed that benefit. Their customers also benefit from lower prices, because self-employed people don't have such high expenses. Of course, it all gets paid for eventually anyway, but consistently over time, and ideally proportional to wealth and/or…

Their income would be high enough not to benefit from that safety net anyway. You would end up paying the same.

If the parent comment meant universal healthcare, you'd absolutely see the lack of health insurance premiums reflected in prices. As a contractor, it's definitely a chunk of my rate.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#426

Post by heavyset_go »

jfengel wrote: post #152
eddsh1994 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Unions exist, no? Personally I sometimes wonder if I'd have enjoyed plumbing water more than plumbing code as I'd be meeting more people face to face, physically active, and it can get surprisingly complex (Berkeley, I think, offers a postgrad cert in plumbing buildings like sky scrapers which I saw advertised the other day)

Probably not. Maybe you just really like people, but in a lot of trades, the people you meet are grumpy. They don't want to meet you; they just want their problem solved. Either they're building a new thing (and trying to meet an aggressive schedule... and are probably behind by the time they bring in the plumbers) or repairing an old thing (and dealing with people who are cranky that the thing failed). It's probably…

And you'll have clients losing their minds that their plumber charges ~$100/hr for "simple" things that the client can't or won't do themselves.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#427

Post by dudul »

UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

Let's all evaluate trades people based on this one anecdote!

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#428

Post by heavyset_go »

eddsh1994 wrote: post #67
Dig1t wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! I grew up in California and my dad was a tradesperson. The union is the only reason my siblings and I had health insurance growing up. He never got any vacation time though, insurance was the main benefit of the union I think. Unfortunately, other states in the US have much weaker unions or none at all, especially in the south.

I am English but moved to the Bay Area a few years back and became friends with a union electrician from Alabama so this conversation comes up a little - it sounded like unions are supported in the south even if they look a little different. However I’m not American and am not certain about that at all :)

States in the south have laws that neuter unions, and some that make unionizing for certain fields/roles illegal.

Unions might exist, but they might not have the same teeth they'd have in states with friendlier organizing laws.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#429

Post by 2devnull »

brianwawok wrote: post #406
1970-01-01 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not sure how your body parts wear out. Via cumulative tissue, bone, and sensory damage. Also known as workin' hard.

It’s not a good analogy. If I stress my bone hard, it strengthens. This is why someone that runs has heavier / stronger leg bones compares to a coucher. On the car side, every time you bend a piece of metal it gets weaker. It cannot repair itself. It cannot get stronger from use.

No. Cumulative load wrecks you in the long run. Consider how many weightlifters end up with multiple back surgeries. They got stronger for awhile, then they couldn’t walk.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#430

Post by frankreyes »

ummonk wrote: post #409
UncleMeat wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a bad area. There aren't better employers in the area. He knows he is being abused. He used to live and work as an electrician in another country where he was treated considerably better. He spends his days wiring new homes that sell for 1.5M+ and gets treated like crap. Moving is unfortunately not an option because my sister's career is very location-dependent. "Well if you aren't in one of the good area…

I’m skeptical of the narrative that trades is some great career choice, but "Well if you aren't in one of the good areas you'll get fucked" applies to pretty much every career choice.

For example being a software engineer outside the US, working for a local business, selling to local customers. In Latin America, programmers can make about 10 or 20 times less than in the US.
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