The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z • Hacker News Board

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#271

Post by dml2135 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #26

teawrecks wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do independent plumbers have to do for healthcare for them and their families? Is there a better option than COBRA? I honestly don't know.

I had to dip into this for a few years. In the U.S., an ACA ("Obamacare") plan is $500-$2000 a month, depending on the state, with extra assistance for low incomes. There are bronze, silver, and gold plans with higher tiers decreasing copays and annual out-of-pocket maximums but significantly bumping the monthly dues. Private insurance also exists but almost universally has inferior terms (payout caps, gaps in covera…

If you have a high-deductible health plan, generally you can open an HSA account, which does allow for medical expenses to effectively be tax-deductible.

There are a bunch of restrictions and loopholes though. I once opened an HSA and then actually had to close it because it turned out my insurance plan had *too* high of a deductible to be eligible, go figure.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#272

Post by jorts » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #260

falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

I'm not sure how your body parts wear out. Football players ruin their bodies through accumulated injuries, not wearing their bodies out. Do athletes wear their bodies out? I've never heard of that. How does doing plumbing/electricioning wear your body out?

Plumbers and electricians contort their body and are moving up and down into cavities of various sizes all day. It definitely takes a toll on you.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#273

Post by fleddr » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

tw98521358 wrote: post #254

fleddr wrote: post #222

If I had to do it all over again, I'd be a plumber. You're not stationary, you're on the move and your day has variety. You spend a lot of time in the physical world and meet lots of people. Your work might at times be smelly but is rewarding in a very direct way. You helped solve a tangible problem and your customers are grateful for it. The range of problems to solve is large, and if you widen your skills, you can…

Yeah but could your body handle 30+ years as a plumber? It’s hard physically work, shit hours and uncompensated commutes. You are literally covered in poop some days and working in the wet/cold others. It’s only a good gig once you own your own firm

There's huge differences in the individual trades and what it means for your body.

The vast majority of my friends are in the trades (I'm the outlier with an office job) and over the course of 20 years, many things have improved. Better tools, machines to do the very hard parts, etc. Some trades aren't super physically taxing, whilst other are, like plasterers.

So the comparison is complicated, and you'll also have to take into account the physical and mental wear of an office job.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#274

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #266

vanderZwan wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company sending you a high bill doesn't automatically mean the guy who fixed your house gets paid well though, does it?

They were one man shops. 20 years ago, the going rate for installing a socket in an existing wired and ready to go junction box was $50. It's about a 5 minute job. I know it's about 5 minutes because I've done a lot of them myself. I'm sure prices have gone up a lot in the last couple decades.

[deleted]

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#275

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

jorts wrote: post #272

WalterBright wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how your body parts wear out. Football players ruin their bodies through accumulated injuries, not wearing their bodies out. Do athletes wear their bodies out? I've never heard of that. How does doing plumbing/electricioning wear your body out?

Plumbers and electricians contort their body and are moving up and down into cavities of various sizes all day. It definitely takes a toll on you.

Can't be worse than yoga.

Edit: Downvote me all you like. I've done yoga, I've done plumbing, I've done electrical. Yoga takes the cake by a mile for most painful contorting.

And yet I know an 86 yo woman who has been doing yoga 3 time a week forever and is fit and sharp.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#276

Post by Tokkemon » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #195

stonogo wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. You cherry-picked that single report, which was based on 76 turbotax returns. I suspect their data is wrong or corrupted, because making $160k as a journeyman lineman is only achievable with a decade experience and a truckload of overtime. Look around a bit further, or talk to actual linemen or unions, and you'll see the average salary for a lineman is about a hundred thousand dollars a year less than th…

Read some Reddit posts where people ask linemen how much they make. People reply with over $200k.

Yeah, because that's more reliable data.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#277

Post by jjulius » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:46 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #260

falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

I'm not sure how your body parts wear out. Football players ruin their bodies through accumulated injuries, not wearing their bodies out. Do athletes wear their bodies out? I've never heard of that. How does doing plumbing/electricioning wear your body out?

>Football players ruin their bodies through accumulated injuries, not wearing their bodies out.

>Do athletes wear their bodies out? I've never heard of that.

Isn't "[ruining] their bodies through accumulated injuries" the same thing as wearing their body out?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#278

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:46 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #266

vanderZwan wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company sending you a high bill doesn't automatically mean the guy who fixed your house gets paid well though, does it?

They were one man shops. 20 years ago, the going rate for installing a socket in an existing wired and ready to go junction box was $50. It's about a 5 minute job. I know it's about 5 minutes because I've done a lot of them myself. I'm sure prices have gone up a lot in the last couple decades.

The electrician is not charging to do a 5 minute job. They do not know that when they accept the job over the phone.

They are charging for their time to drive to and from you, the possibility that the job is more involved than described, and the liability from doing the job. And the opportunity cost of not accepting a different job due to your job.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#279

Post by Avshalom » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:46 PM UTC

gspencley wrote: post #230

Avshalom wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is a finite end to the career this actually brings to mind something else: I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense so any job that feels too specific also feels like a it'll bite you in the ass in 5 years.

> I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense We're probably just nit-picking over definitions but a career, in my opinion, is not "having the same job for decades." A career is a decision to specialize in a particular craft, trade or profession. The opposite of a career is someone who takes odd jobs. Hospitality one day,…

>> We're probably just nit-picking over definitions but a career

No, that's fair. Like "carpenter" and "programmer" are both very broad professions of course. I think there's something about the way various industries get hit by down turns more or less visibly (like when construction goes down it feels like it's everybody, and so every framer, every concrete layer) that creates an (often false to be sure) sense of narrowness.

But also Plumber, Electrician, Carpenter, etc. are very broad trades and even though articles get written using those words because everyone knows what they do, the articles are often really talking about the lack of elevator technicians, crane operators, industrial HVAC, PLC programmers, train conductors, air traffic controllers those more niche trades. A lot of machine operators end up so niche that their current company is the only one in a state that could employ them. My sister makes M&Ms, other than company policies about like sanitation she'd be no better than a new hire on the Twix line.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#280

Post by jjk166 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:46 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #167

omginternets wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, has your employer tried paying more? There are a fair few desk jobs that pay $25-30/hr, and it's entirely possible that people are trading job stability for something that isn't so physically demanding.

There's not that many jobs that pay that much around here. However, our Seattle location has that problem. It was almost closed down because of competition. edit: can't reply to the person who replied below, but if you have a contract to sell parts to a company you can't just increase your worker pay to whatever you want and have it be sustainable.

> if you have a contract to sell parts to a company you can't just increase your worker pay to whatever you want and have it be sustainable.

Fire whoever quoted the job such that the contract doesn't pay enough to hire workers to fulfill the contract. They are worse than useless.