Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 915 posts

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#221

Post by JumpCrisscross »

maxsilver wrote: post #203
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no price any real person encounter anywhere in their daily life is actually determined in any meaningful way by "supply" or "demand" Case in point. > how every hospital is short staffed and desperate for nurses (high demand), while we also constantly law nurses off or reduce hours (and nursing has consistently-fixed low salaries, despite the shortages) How many paying patients are they turning away on account of th…

> How many paying patients are they turning away on account of this supposed shortage? That's not how it works. Generally speaking, any publicly funded hospital in the US must take patients by law, they can not turn away patients except under very specific circumstances. > There isn't a national nurse shortage Literally everyone disagrees with you: - The New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/15/us/hospital…

> any publicly funded hospital in the US must take patients by law, they can not turn away patients except under very specific circumstances

Not all nurses are employed at hospitals. I said paying patient, but I should have said deniable. Someone seeking out the sorts of care hospitals start denying when they face an actual emergency.

> everyone disagrees with you

Oh, I've seen the meme. I'm just casting it a bit more cynically. Nobody wants to pay nurses more. So we need more nurses, whether out of nursing school or through immigration.

> if they're short, why aren't they able to pay traveling nurse rates

They did [1]! When they needed them. Because there was demand for them. When there wasn't, they didn't.

> no reason a hospital couldn't pay higher nursing rates, they just choose not to, because again, that figure is not determined by supply or demand

This is how supply and demand work. They're not paying more because they don't have to.

[1] https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/nursing/the-complexity...

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#222

Post by fleddr »

If I had to do it all over again, I'd be a plumber.

You're not stationary, you're on the move and your day has variety. You spend a lot of time in the physical world and meet lots of people. Your work might at times be smelly but is rewarding in a very direct way. You helped solve a tangible problem and your customers are grateful for it. The range of problems to solve is large, and if you widen your skills, you can grow into a generic handyman that can fix almost anything. Pay should be decent enough and by mid career you might even take a plunge at freelancing.

Where I live, the expensive cars are driven by the skilled trades, not by office clerks. But money isn't my main point, it's physical and mental health, clear purpose, impactful and rewarding work.

Bonus: AI isn't coming for you anytime soon.

Extra bonus: no office politics.

Frankly, it's exactly what Gen Z needs. They're all so cynical and divorced from the physical world and real people. Should they go into an office job, nearly 100% of their life would be digital, perpetuating and accelerating their issues.

Digital sucks. It has no soul. Chose wisely.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#225

Post by ajmurmann »

joecot wrote: post #134
megaman821 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is all the money people paying tradespeople going? If I need any plumbing work done it costs me $200 an hour or more. Even with overhead and expenses, 10 hours a week gets you more than $50k a year. Twenty years ago my grandfather was a marine plumber and made $200k a year. How many apprentices and part-time plumber are in these datasets?

If retail stores are making record breaking profits, why are service workers paid so little? If medical costs are so high, why aren't nurses and nurse aids making more? It's not rocket science. People aren't getting paid for the value of their labor, and productivity has rocketed up while wages have stagnated for decades. Your plumber charges 200 an hour and doesn't make anywhere near that much, because they work for…

Sounds like more reason the call by many here to stop complaining and pay more seems spot on.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#226

Post by [deleted] »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #183
rednerrus wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the reality of all jobs where you work for someone else. You're selling your time, and your body to someone else.

You're right, but there's a gradient: there's selling your time and then there's selling your time and being in constant pain.

[deleted]

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#227

Post by rco8786 »

bluedino wrote: post #139

I was working for an aerospace manufacturer for a while. We were getting 40/50 year old apprentices for the trades, guys coming off the production floor. Electricians, millwrights, CNC machinists... we couldn't find enough of them. I get it. Nobody wants to stand in front of a machine (or 5-6 machines) for 10 hours a day. Nobody wants to be in a 90 degree factory all day. Nobody wants to work 2nd or 3rd shifts. The p…

> You get overtime.

I think this comment represents a fundamental disconnect in cultures. The days of people "wanting" overtime are kind of gone. If I saw "overtime pay" on a job description all I am seeing is "work long hours, never see your kids, no time for hobbies, etc".

Maybe that translates to me "not wanting to work", but that's the situation.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#228

Post by lotsofpulp »

r00fus wrote: post #25
teawrecks wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do independent plumbers have to do for healthcare for them and their families? Is there a better option than COBRA? I honestly don't know.

I mean Obamacare exchanges exist but (as the insurance industry wants) it mostly sucks in terms of costs/coverage. COBRA is still better because you get tied to your former employer's risk pool even though you pay employer share of healthcare costs.

You can buy the same health insurance on healthcare.gov that businesses buy from the same insurance companies.

They even have metal levels so you know you are getting the same actuarial value. A silver BCBS plan from an employer is basically the same coverage as a silver BCBS plan from healthcare.gov.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#229

Post by stcroixx »

onion2k wrote: post #52
bruceb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay more yet also increase the supply of labor which drives down wages. Seems not the answer.

Sometimes Econ101 supply and demand theory isn't nuanced enough. Wages can go up at the same time as the supply increases if the amount of money in the system also increases. How do you think software engineer wages rocketed up over the past 20 years?

Outside of FAANG outliers and SV, have software engineer wages really rocketed up? I've worked outside the FAANG world at companies of various sizes and industries for 25 years and haven't seen it. If anything, I'd say wage growth has been kept artificially low by H1B competition from folks born in low cost of living countries under threat of deportation if they object to the abuse they receive. The average corporate IT dept. looks more like a sweatshop now than it did 20 years ago, the ones I've seen anyway.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#230

Post by gspencley »

Avshalom wrote: post #123
falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

>there is a finite end to the career this actually brings to mind something else: I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense so any job that feels too specific also feels like a it'll bite you in the ass in 5 years.

> I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense

We're probably just nit-picking over definitions but a career, in my opinion, is not "having the same job for decades." A career is a decision to specialize in a particular craft, trade or profession. The opposite of a career is someone who takes odd jobs. Hospitality one day, transportation the next, might dabble in manufacturing. These jobs pay the bills, and there's nothing wrong with "just" doing that, but they are disconnected jobs; not a career.

I consider myself to have a career in software engineering but I have had multiple "jobs" over the decades that have contributed to that career. The career is the knowledge, the experience, the speciality, the reputation, the time spent focusing... all accumulated over my time developing that career. A career could be made by having a single job lasting from graduation until retirement, or it could be a handful of jobs that put to practice and develop the same skillset and knowledge.

Post reply on HN