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Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

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Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#41

Post by qdog »

Chemistry, Engineering, Mathematics, etc. all existed before coding. So far, the number of people willing to do hard 'mental' tasks has been pretty low. More than a few people I have known haven't gotten into working with their brain that much until later in life, once they decide that the types of jobs generally available to the unskilled aren't what they want to do.

3 months to learn to code Java? I shudder to think of think kind of code those places produce.

Maybe people can learn to make database queries maybe, but most problems I've been asked to solve quickly morph and start requiring a lot more to get working, even to accomplish tasks that seem 'simple' on the surface.

If coding was simple to learn, UML->code would work flawlessly (as in a tool that generates code from UML). I don't think this has proven to be the case.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#42

Post by FuzzyDunlop »

kenjackson wrote: post #20
moocow01 wrote: post #8

I think the shortage of software development skills really has to do with the lack of there being enough people who get impassioned with this kind of stuff. When I step out of my bubble I realize that its really difficult to find cultural-personality fits for what building software requires. Most people are just not like 'us' for better or worse. Most people don't get giddy over implementing a new algorithm or buildi…

I think the shortage of software development skills really has to do with the lack of there being enough people who get impassioned with this kind of stuff. I was at a party recently I was asking someone about their work. I was really interested in how they solved certain problems, etc... We were probably only talking a minute or so when she says, "Can we not talk about my job and ask me about my car or some great me…

I think you can look at this another way too. How many people in other industries voluntarily embark on pet projects or hobbyist experiments that involve the same things they do at work?

How many people in other industries blog about their profession in their own time? And not just about their day to day, but about new things they've found or interesting things they've figured out.

People want to go home and leave work at the office, but it's not at all uncommon for a programmer or developer to carry on in their spare time, working on their own stuff. You probably started off your career as a hobby in the first place.

Sometimes it can be hard to switch off when plenty of other people manage it fine. It seems almost implausible to imagine a fellow colleague who wasn't interested. I also think that specialist journalism is another profession that almost expects 'extra-curricular' interest in the field.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#43

Post by [deleted] »

agscala wrote: post #5
kls wrote: post #2

I think the piece is overly optimistic about the prospects of coding becoming common place. We have dealt with the software crisis since the inception of software and up till now, no one has proposed an even half way plausible plan on how to address it. As such until someone solve the software crisis in a measurable way that can improve the quality and predictability of code. It will remain a craft, as such only the…

I agree, and also I'd like to add something. While it's not really an attractive job to many people, it's also relatively difficult for most people. Farming is different in that it's easy for anyone to do (it's just manual labor). Realistically, you can't expect a large portion of the population to be capable of programming.

[deleted]

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#44

Post by Homunculiheaded »

stevecooperorg wrote: post #37
Nitramp wrote: post #23

Citation missing, but I've read a paper that claimed rather convincingly that you need a certain mindset both to be good at programming and to enjoy programming (unsurprisingly, this comes hand in hand). It's not really problem solving, it's rather a specific kind of structured thinking. It's the attention to detail and the will to think through every aspect of an issue, to find a complete solution. That's also a use…

I agree with you: what we think of as 'pro' programming -- writing large programs in formal languages and running it past an interpreter/compiler -- is probably only something the few will really get into. However, there's a couple of exceptions to this idea I'm not sure how to handle. MS EXCEL : It's a programming experience, of a sort, and is incredibly popular. I think it uses similar skills to writing code, but i…

I actually think the excel example demonstrates that we are unlikely to see that many more programmers in the future. As much as people use excel in their offices there is still the idea of the 'excel wizard' who really understands the functions and features of excel. It's actually quite surprising how many people I've encountered who use excel pretty frequently and still don't know many of it's basic features. The fact that there is the idea of 'excel wizard' means that for most people even the programmatic aspect of excel is elusive and uninviting.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#45

Post by jashmenn »

stevecooperorg wrote: post #37
Nitramp wrote: post #23

Citation missing, but I've read a paper that claimed rather convincingly that you need a certain mindset both to be good at programming and to enjoy programming (unsurprisingly, this comes hand in hand). It's not really problem solving, it's rather a specific kind of structured thinking. It's the attention to detail and the will to think through every aspect of an issue, to find a complete solution. That's also a use…

I agree with you: what we think of as 'pro' programming -- writing large programs in formal languages and running it past an interpreter/compiler -- is probably only something the few will really get into. However, there's a couple of exceptions to this idea I'm not sure how to handle. MS EXCEL : It's a programming experience, of a sort, and is incredibly popular. I think it uses similar skills to writing code, but i…

Yes exactly! There have been times in history (pre-printing-press) where most people couldn't even read. I'm sure there where many scribes who would look down their noses and say that the common man would never take the time to read for himself.

Our society has grown to be incredibly complex. Imagine taking your great-great-great-great-great-grandfather and dropping him in modern times today and asking him to fill out the forms to get a drivers license, prepare his own taxes, set the clock on your dvd player, or send an email on an iPhone.

I guess my point is that the "common" man is pretty capable of feats that would be considered extremely technical from a historic vantage point.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#46

Post by steder »

ZoltonVonMises wrote: post #35
danso wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that would be the case in other professions...but as a coder, I would LOVE to have more people involved in it. I think programming is one of those areas in which a rising tide lifts all boats. I find that most of my time is either dumbing things down (i.e. printing the output of a relational database into a flat spreadsheet or worse, a PDF) for those who barely understand basic Excel or attempting to parse such…

I definitely understand. I'm just looking at it from a purely economical perspective. Sure, as the mass's technical prowess goes up, my ability to create cool things also goes up, but as the mass's technical prowess goes up, the earning potential in programming goes down. Any time a resource becomes less scarce, it's value drops.

I know where you're coming from but I think that if more people have a basic understanding of programming then more people will be able to recognize the value of good programmers. Assuming you've got the talent and experience I'm thinking your market rate may actually go up significantly. People have a hard time appreciating (and paying for) work they don't understand.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#47

Post by noduerme »

63% of Americans aged 18 to 24 couldn't find Iraq on a map after we'd been at war there for three years. So let's discount those people right away. The rest -- the other 37% -- have jobs and at least some kind of education. Most of them aren't interested in solving puzzles; they're interested in making money. That's what comes naturally to them.

I'm a mid-level coder. I bill $100-$150/hr. freelance. I specialize in cleaning up the messes left by the Indians and Romanians they hired the first time. I turn their disaster into a functional app, or website, on time and on budget (a budget about six times what they thought they'd be paying, but still not enough for the aggravation). It's a hellishly difficult job that makes me want to pull my hair out by the roots; but I'm good at what I do.

I DIDN'T go to college, and I never took a class in programming. And yet there are only one or two other guys in the world I'd trust to work on my code. So all of this, really, is bullshit. It's nice, but it's a lie. Either you're born with the kind of screwed up brain I have, that lets you see through the code, or you're not. They can commodify everything and turn everyone into a product, but they can't make more of us.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#48

Post by benvanderbeek »

Nitramp wrote: post #23

Citation missing, but I've read a paper that claimed rather convincingly that you need a certain mindset both to be good at programming and to enjoy programming (unsurprisingly, this comes hand in hand). It's not really problem solving, it's rather a specific kind of structured thinking. It's the attention to detail and the will to think through every aspect of an issue, to find a complete solution. That's also a use…

I was talking to a (print) design friend the other day who's trying to learn to code. It's interesting to explain to a non-programmer what kind of person will/can become a programmer. If you don't love solving problems by digging and automating, then you will never be a programmer. As you say, not because of intelligence but rather desire and enjoyment.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#49

Post by rythie »

Homunculiheaded wrote: post #44
stevecooperorg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you: what we think of as 'pro' programming -- writing large programs in formal languages and running it past an interpreter/compiler -- is probably only something the few will really get into. However, there's a couple of exceptions to this idea I'm not sure how to handle. MS EXCEL : It's a programming experience, of a sort, and is incredibly popular. I think it uses similar skills to writing code, but i…

I actually think the excel example demonstrates that we are unlikely to see that many more programmers in the future. As much as people use excel in their offices there is still the idea of the 'excel wizard' who really understands the functions and features of excel. It's actually quite surprising how many people I've encountered who use excel pretty frequently and still don't know many of it's basic features. The f…

I remember in 90s you were called a computer wizard if you how to type a document and print it. Expectations change.

Re: Could Coding Become the Next Mass Profession?

#50

Post by drumdance »

I think there are certain skills that strongly overlap. I never studied programming, but I did study music. I've seen that pattern many times. So perhaps students at music schools should consider developing secondary skills in coding. I certainly wish I had done that.
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