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U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

nytimes.com

321–330 of 514 posts

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#321

We have various "professional services" folks at my fortune 500, essentially staff aug. Some of those folks I'd like to convert, but there's a non-compete. I wonder if that goes away now? (non California)

Might want to double check the text of the noncompete. I've never worked anywhere that forbade converting. Rather, it was to stop permatemps from hopping vendors when they inevitably found out some of them pay more for the same work, or from offering the client the same services and entering into competition with the vendor.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, here are a couple of arguments for: 1. I have a relative who is an MD. He was recruited cross-country at great expense. (Average cost to recruit an MD can be about $250K). So, if his comp was $200K/year and it cost $250K to recruit, a neighboring practice could monitor for new incoming docs, and make an offer of $220K/year in salary to the newly hired doc. If that happened, it would be in the best interest of the…

I think those are all reasons a company might want it. But asking the government to force people to not work requires reasons why it's good for society, not just the company. In the first case, you're talking about a company that wants to pay below-market salaries. Why should that be the employee's problem? In the second, there's a case for carrots to make the acquired team stay, like the stock options you mention. B…

> But asking the government to force people to not work requires reasons why it's good for society, not just the company.

Nobody is forced not to work. That's pure hyperbole.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#323
One of the FAANGs tried to get me, as an independent contractor, to sign a non-compete that exactly described my business. And they wanted a multi-million dollar indemnification for work that amounted to 2+2=4. As in, no one owns the work result, it's a discovery of facts about how the world works. At first they suggested I needed to sign the agreement before they'd pay my invoice, but then quickly paid it and nixed further work planned. I was not going to sign something so blatantly lopsided. Not everyone is in a position to do that though.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#324

Would this also block noncompetes that block you from creating a competitor to where you work or prevent double employment at competing companies?

If they look to California's noncompete ban as an example, leaving your company to compete with them would be fine, but double-employment could still be restricted (because they can just fire you).

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even that has major drawbacks -- if you're not actually working, then you're not building your resume, you're not getting promotions, you're not advancing. And if you find your work meaningful and satisfying, that meaning and satisfaction is gone. Not to mention who determines how much "being paid" means, when compensation isn't just base salary but also variable things like company bonuses, individual performanc…

I would agree these are system-wide less efficient, but shouldn't paid "garden leave" be legal if parties agree upfront?

> I would agree these are system-wide less efficient, but shouldn't paid "garden leave" be legal if parties agree upfront?

“Garden leave” is basically just being in paid employment with no duties.

Neither the FTC action nor state policies like those in California generally prohibit noncompetes while employed.

However, if the compensation for such a contracted “garden leave” was substantially less than normal full-time comp for the employee, and agreed prior to employment rather than as a separate independent agreement at the end of the employment-with-duties, I can imagine the FTC still seeing it as an unfair competition practice, and state courts, limiting recovery for breach to any “garden leave” compensation for the time in breach.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#326
I recently had to deal with some onerous IP clauses that were essentially a non-compete. Fortunately they agreed to drop it.

But for the future: Any advice on finding a good IP lawyer who knows software/media? Lots of IP lawyers around here happy to charge me $300/hr, not so many I'm confident understand the creation of videogame code & assets.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not “making” a law. The law already says certain types of firearm are legal and certain are illegal. Now if this law were to be maintained by congress, they’d need, I don’t know, a group of experts who understand firearm and congress will constantly revise and add or remove items from a list. May be they’ll give this group a name at some point and then they’d realise that it’s really hard to manage all this wh…

Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, section 478.11 defines a “firearm receiver” as, “[t]hat part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel.” ATF has "regulated" that an AR-15 lower "receiver" is legally a "firearm receiver." Now show me where the "bolt or breechblock" is housed in the low…

Two things: first, are you referring to a regulation and saying that another regulation is inconsistent? It seems that neither is making "law" in the sense of an act of Congress. It would be different if the law had its own definition.

Second, your citation appears to be out of date and the current regulation defines "frame or receiver" differently.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#328
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be ok if it was total compensation (averaged over a reasonable period) and not salary?

The problem there is people often leave one job for a job which might pay 2x, 5x, or even more. How about if you get another job offer, your original employer has to either "buy you out" of the new job offer, or you allowed to take it?

That seems ripe for exploitation. Someone could setup a company that effectively does nothing but offer to hire people for exorbitant rates.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any stories after that conversation?

Not really. My new job was in CA which doesn't honor noncompetes, so they really didn't have a leg to stand on. Mostly just funny.

It matters more where your old company is than your new one. If you work in a state that does allow non-competes and move to a new job in CA which does not, your old employer can come after you in their/your old home state courts where CA law does not matter one bit.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#330
post #42

It's a way of establishing an "intellectual property" claim inside your skull. I put that in quotes because a limited term government grant of monopoly, which is what patents and copyrights actually are, are not "property." There is no property right in that grant of a monopoly. Congress could reset the term of patents and copyrights at any moment, on any terms. That's a much weaker thing than actual property rights.

> Congress could reset the term of patents and copyrights at any moment, on any terms. That's a much weaker thing than actual property rights.

Property comes in many forms. There's real estate, and movable property, in the most basic sense of property. But there is also intangible property. You can own a licence for use of part of the radio spectrum in a region. This is a valuable thing and you can sell it or buy it from another licensee. Radio regulation is basically all created by government legislation, and it could probably be changed at any moment, too. There are also financial assets, such as shares or bonds. Corporations themselves are legal fictions, and might be modified by legislation, with associated impacts on the property.

I strictly avoid the term "intellectual property" myself. Because conflating all these senses of property is highly confusing. A car is not a steel mill, which is not a patent, which is not a taxi licence, which is not a share in a corporation, which is not land. We need to carefully distinguish these, in most cases. But in a political science sense, they are property: legally recognized rights, usually transferrable, that claim exclusivity to something, tangible or intangible.

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