Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend • Hacker News Board

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#111

Post by OnlineGladiator » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

acover wrote: post #43

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I'm so sick of the cynicism in general. Personally, I'm so sick of there not being nearly enough cynicism in general. I've met cops that aren't total pieces of shit (who all ended up quitting in less than 5 years), but that doesn't mean cops aren't total pieces of shit. If the nature of the job is unethical, you should rightly call it out as such. HR's job is to pretend to be your friend while doing wha…

Why is the nature of being a cop unethical? I agree there are abuses of the power but from what I've seen in real life it's important work.

I should mention I am referring specifically to police in the United States. The short answer is because cops defend cops, including bad cops. People like to say it's just a few bad apples, but it's far more prevalent than that. And even if it were just 1 in 100, the fact that the cops band together to protect a rapist/murderer/whatever shows that they care more about unity than morals.

I realize this answer is lacking, but I've had this argument so many times and it drains hours out of my day to pursue it - because the supporting data is complicated and people are correct to provide counter arguments (and then I have to respond and it goes back and forth for a while). I encourage you to do your own research on statistics regarding police officers in the US. The one everybody likes to cite is how many police officer's beat their wives - 40%. And even this data point is very complicated and requires a lot of nuance and so on.

But since people enjoy stories, here's one egregious example of a sheriff's department abusing their power. Even I think this is exceptionally awful and most police departments aren't this bad, but it's well researched and makes for a good read.

https://knock-la.com/tradition-of-violence-lasd-gang-history...

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#112

Post by ravenstine » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

frellus wrote: post #10

I get the whole "HR can be evil" point, but this article could have also been, "Having friends in management is fine, but management is not your friend". Personally, I'm so sick of the cynicism in general. Can we make points and articles about protecting yourself, as an employee, without resorting to such things? As a manager in a company, I've both had friends in HR and also had HR been my friend. Need to fire that…

> Why round everything up to the cynical points just to get clicks?

Clicks translate to moolah and social capital.

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#113

Post by revskill » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

Title is contraction.

If HR is not your friend, then you don't "having friends in HR".

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#114

Post by kenjackson » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #85

throwawaysleep wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, if you're being harassed, it's very often in the company's interest to stop that happening. It will cause you and perhaps more people to quit if they don't, and there might be legal risk. Depends. You going to sacrifice a secretary or a engineering manager? You basically need to try and determine what your value is to the org before going to HR.

Related to the other comment about HR having their own goals... HR may want to get rid of that engineering manager anyway, so they can be replaced with someone that improves their demographics quotas, I mean targets. I have actually seen such targets in some OKRs for one or more HR teams, somewhere.

I've never heard of a highly effective engineering manager being replaced to meet a demographic target. I'd be surprised if this has ever happened, much less being an actual industry problem. I could see them replacing an engineering manager, for reasons unrelated to the target, and replacing them with someone that helps move them toward their target -- but those are drastically different things.

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#115

Post by ravenstine » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

frellus wrote: post #10

I get the whole "HR can be evil" point, but this article could have also been, "Having friends in management is fine, but management is not your friend". Personally, I'm so sick of the cynicism in general. Can we make points and articles about protecting yourself, as an employee, without resorting to such things? As a manager in a company, I've both had friends in HR and also had HR been my friend. Need to fire that…

> Need to hire the next best engineer? HR is my friend.

So long as HR is actually equipped to do that. Such does not seem to be the case the vast majority of the time.

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#116

Post by that_guy_iain » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

There is the thing most people don't really think of. They all know HR represents the company and are to look after it's interest. But one major thing, HR needs to keep their job too. I had a really good relationship with HR at one company we were _really_ close. But when the company wanted to get rid of me, she did what anyone else would do that needs their job did the super shady stuff they told her to do and got a new job asap. Most people need their jobs. They need to feed their family.

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#117

Post by javajosh » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

acover wrote: post #43

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I'm so sick of the cynicism in general. Personally, I'm so sick of there not being nearly enough cynicism in general. I've met cops that aren't total pieces of shit (who all ended up quitting in less than 5 years), but that doesn't mean cops aren't total pieces of shit. If the nature of the job is unethical, you should rightly call it out as such. HR's job is to pretend to be your friend while doing wha…

Why is the nature of being a cop unethical? I agree there are abuses of the power but from what I've seen in real life it's important work.

Power is corrupting, and police have a de facto shit-ton of real, immediate power over everyone in their vicinity. They have a "martial law bubble" around them that allows them to physically assault you, put you in jail, and upend your whole life with very little effort. You will have no recourse, and they will suffer no consequences. You may file a complaint with the department, and it will be followed up on, poorly, by a fellow officer who is highly motivated to see nothing but another disgruntled loser trying to get petty revenge. The judges don't care and work with the DA and the same officers all the time, and maintain cordial, cooperative relationships with them, all of which is damaged if there is any adversarial action.

It is within this context an average intelligence, perhaps even above-average moral person enters after 6-weeks of training. This person likes watching football and drinking beer. They help their elderly neighbors with the trash. They are a "normal" man who will stand up for himself, physically, in extreme cases. Now give him a gun and a badge and a martial law bubble. How do you think this normal, average man will evolve when he realizes his power? When he sees his friends on the force us it, daily, to get what they want, to make their jobs a little easier? When does he learn to enjoy that feeling of power, for itself, the way it feels to beat someone and put his knee on someone's neck because they talked back to you, and know that no-one can do shit about it? And you can even rationalize it - they shouldn't have been rude, they should know how much power I have and that I'm only human, its really just punishment for being stupid. Plus, the public still loves me and is grateful to me, considering me in high esteem as a moral upstanding citizen - so we must be doing something right!

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#118

Post by epicureanideal » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #83

epicureanideal wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HR represents the company. Where your goals and the company's aligns HR very often does not even work in the interests of the company. Instead, it works in the interest of the HR employees' own political beliefs, which they then cloak in the language of doing what's right for the company, and connect no matter how loosely to any laws, regulations, etc. that they can use to justify imposing the beliefs they wanted t…

A few years ago I read an article in a business magazine, Forbes or Inc., that surveyed CEOs and found over half of them fear their company's HR department. It seems HR has evolved to be independent of many company's management structure and answerable only to itself.

HR has evolved into political commissars, of the 1918-1924, 1937-1942 variety:

> The political commissar held military rank equaling the unit commander to whom he was attached; moreover, the commissar also had the military authority to countermand the unit-commander's orders at any time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commissar

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#119

Post by elil17 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

D13Fd wrote: post #105

elil17 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're hiring a top law firm. Plenty of lawyers can be had for $100/hour and are well qualified to review employment terms.

I agree $700/hr is higher than necessary. But I'm not sure what kind of lawyer you are going to get for $100/hr if you're talking about within the U.S.

Small town, private practice (not a big law firm)

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#120

Post by DwnVoteHoneyPot » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

CoastalCoder wrote: post #47

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to work for smaller companies so I've been laid off a few times. I've hired employment lawyers each time. I've paid them approx $2K-$3K each time and have receive much more back.

Can you say more about how they were helpful?

First, I worked at Company A for 5 years, then was actively recruited to Company B. Company B laid me off after 11 months. The typical severance payment is 1 month for each year of service, so you'd assume I'd only get ~1 month of pay. The lawyer was able to get me 1 month of salary for each of 5 years plus 11 months of service. There is something in the laws* about them actively recruiting, luring me away from Company A that makes Company B need to compensate me for the loss of leaving Company A.

*I'm not a lawyer, but I think it's case law and not statutory laws.

Second, employment lawyer told me when they announce a large layoff, they have everything planned. Including a budget for people who ask for more money. Since HR is dealing with hundreds or thousands of layoffs (eg. Amazon), they don't have time/resources to argue with you. If you ask for more severance, they'll just give it to you (budget already approved), especially if you are represented by a lawyer.

EDIT: Third, I'm mid-career. Lawyer told me at my level, it takes longer to find a job. Why accept a generic package that juniors will get when law* already agrees that it takes me longer to find work. Point of the severance is to bridge me to my next job, I should get more.