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Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

cdoyle.me

91–100 of 235 posts

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#91
post #21

HR represents the company. Where your goals and the company's aligns, they can be helpful. Where they diverge, perhaps less so. I think a lot of these sorts of articles discount the idea that your goals and the company's will frequently align. For example, if you're being harassed, it's very often in the company's interest to stop that happening. It will cause you and perhaps more people to quit if they don't, and th…

> [If] you're being harassed, it's very often in the company's interest to stop that happening.

You’d think so, but (as you go on to mention) all too often that interest is mediated through some proxy metric such as legal or publicity risk, which can entail a reaction contrary to your interest: e.g. legal risk might reasonably be thought proportional to your legal budget, which is related to your position in the company, so low-level employees get ignored; or if it’s easy for everybody to get publicity, maybe suspects get fired no matter how slim the evidence (the company is free not to do business, including employment, with whomever they want!), making real claims look less legitimate because a few fake ones are widely known; or legal and publicity risks get mitigated by paying everyone involved to shut up rather than solving the problem; etc.

So far it doesn’t look like proxy metrics imposed by government or popular opinion work all that well.

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#92
post #10

I get the whole "HR can be evil" point, but this article could have also been, "Having friends in management is fine, but management is not your friend". Personally, I'm so sick of the cynicism in general. Can we make points and articles about protecting yourself, as an employee, without resorting to such things? As a manager in a company, I've both had friends in HR and also had HR been my friend. Need to fire that…

> HR aren’t evil, they’re just doing a job

Managers on the other hand may or may not work in your best interests, just like any friend. Meanwhile, HR is literally tasked with protecting the company from me. So I would not lump the two into the same basket.

I've been lucky enough to have experienced managers who see my current position as inherently temporary, and would consider it a personal failure to not help me develop my overall career as best I can. I know not all managers think like this, probably not even most managers, but the point is they are allowed to. HR is not.

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#93
post #88

So, what are some things I should be doing (documenting?) now, as a happy and well-performing at-will US-based employee, so that I can have legal standing for a better "redundancy package" than what is offered, if I'm terminated, later? This article kind of stops short and seems to just be saying, "get a lawyer before you sign anything," which I've heard before. How would I know if a lawyer would be able to help impr…

Alternatively: What case could I make in the "exit interview" or whenever the package is being offered to make a counter-offer and have it considered, without necessarily having to secure legal representation?

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#94
post #21

HR represents the company. Where your goals and the company's aligns, they can be helpful. Where they diverge, perhaps less so. I think a lot of these sorts of articles discount the idea that your goals and the company's will frequently align. For example, if you're being harassed, it's very often in the company's interest to stop that happening. It will cause you and perhaps more people to quit if they don't, and th…

> HR represents the company. Where your goals and the company's aligns HR very often does not even work in the interests of the company. Instead, it works in the interest of the HR employees' own political beliefs, which they then cloak in the language of doing what's right for the company, and connect no matter how loosely to any laws, regulations, etc. that they can use to justify imposing the beliefs they wanted t…

HR also plays little tricks during hiring to see if candidate accepts lowball offers. They put pressure for signing offer saying that there are couple other equally good candidates for the same position. PS - I had first hand experience. found out too late that there were no other candidates waiting for offer :|

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#95
post #50

The whole concept of a "human resources" department was developed as a response to workers organizing unions to bargain over terms and conditions of employment. Whatever the flaws of some unions, they are ultimately economically dependent on their members, and the officers are elected. HR is accountable only to executives. https://inthesetimes.com/article/human-resources-me-too-sexu...

Wasn't the precursor "Personnel Departments" which were more administrative? Especially in a pre-computer era with more literal paperwork? It seems like HR evolved out of that to service more "strategic" business needs, which sure, probably included union busting, but also includes many other functions to serve companies in more competitive environments that are dominated by knowledge work.

HR departments grew out of fear of compliance with the amorphous legal incentive structures created by federal discrimination laws in the 1970s https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3322830/Dobbin_S...

> The continuing ambiguity of compliance standards led management writers to advocate permanent antidiscrimination offices to track legal shifts. Because the courts were so fickle, Marino (1980, p. 25) advised executives to adopt the “Good-Faith-Effort Strategy,” the heart of which was a special office designed to signal that the employer was making every effort to figure out how to comply. In a Harvard Business Review article, Antonia Chayes (1974, p. 81) noted that “vigorous enforcement” had brought “serious top management attention to antidiscrimination legislation....Now the penalties imposed under employment discrimination laws are seen as posing a severe financial threat.” She advised executives to set up EEO and AA programs that could prevent lawsuits. Meanwhile, compensation of upper managers was being tied to affirmative action performance, and this led them to support dedicated antidiscrimination departments.

this may sound familiar

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#97

I dont understand those bad experiences with HR here All hr stuff that ive been involved in was getting hired, questions about taxes, days off calculations and health provider related stuff Like... what happened to you?

When you're reliant on them, every single HR dept I've hard to deal with (across many companies) has been incompetent. It's too the point I have systems in place to cover their inevitable screw up.

e.g. I was living in the US and had to go for a business trip to the UK and my company put up in the Ritz Carlton in London (a very fancy and very expensive hotel, especially during new year).

However the HR person thought that having a $50 max total spend for my corporate credit card (for an international trip) was fine. Note the hotel room was probably around $550 per night (times by a week).

Luckily my personal credit card, which had an extremely low cap as I had just moved to the US and had really no credit score, managed to cover it.

Of course no apologies and were blase about it when I spoke to them.

If we behaved like this on our dev teams, we'd all get fired.

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#98

Prior to going out on my own at a precociously young age, my time in corporate America (~3.5 years) was fairly brief, and less than half of it spent at companies large enough to have an HR apparatus in any meaningful sense. I always found their seeming double-agent role confusing and ambiguous in a slightly sinister way, even as they preached that they were there for us workforce people if we needed anything.

The dehumanizing name "Human Resources" says it all, doesn't it? We're not people. We're not even workers. We're just resources that happen to be members of the human species. Similar to other resources like staplers. There's no perfect euphemism for what HR does, but something like... I don't know... Workforce Management? Would be a little less awful, I think?

Many companies are moving away from calling it that. Let's not pretend it's like that everywhere. I can't recall the last place I worked that actually called it "Human Resources".

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#99

I dont understand those bad experiences with HR here All hr stuff that ive been involved in was getting hired, questions about taxes, days off calculations and health provider related stuff Like... what happened to you?

The 'bad experiences' with HR are usually because of some employees not understanding who HR serves - I also have never had a problem with HR; you only deal with HR on your first day and last day for the most part.

It's not much different than forgetting that the oh so helpful real estate agent is there to make a sale and a commission, not to make sure you find the perfect house at the best price.

Re: Having friends in HR is fine, but HR is not your friend

#100
It's utterly bizarre how people keep scape goating HR.

It's the typical situation that whenever HR goes out of their way to make "everyone" happy, no one says acknowledges it. But Management can hide behind "HR" and employees love blaming HR, because that is the person they interact with the most.

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