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Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

economist.com

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Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#351

Post by megaman821 »

hannasanarion wrote: post #165
aardvarkr wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no, Elon failed so hard at running tech companies that he accidentally built three of the most innovative companies of the last 20 years and became the worlds richest man… you can hate him all you want but don’t underestimate him. I hate that I have to be the voice of reason here since I really hate his god complex but I can at least respect what he’s built. That list includes X/PayPal, Tesla, and SpaceX. Don’t le…

Elon didn't "build" any of his businesses, he is and always was the "money guy". He provided startup capital for X.com and SpaceX, but never did any substantial technical work on either. He bought Tesla after they already had several prototypes and started cosplaying as "founder" and fired everybody who called BS.

Any tips for the rest of us on how we can "money guy" our way to one of the richest people on earth?

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#352

Post by hef19898 »

8ytecoder wrote: post #315
hef19898 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even back when I worked there in logistics, I wondered how much of AMZN share price comes from AWS and how much comes from retail. But then it is difficult, cash flow comes from retail, profits come from AWS. So Amazon might actually be both, and benefiting from it.

Amazon went from a tech company to a retail company (not including AWS). Back then e-commerce was nascent and everything Amazon did was R&D. Now their differentiator is scale and logistics. The website and related technologies are taken for granted even though we all know the complexity of it. But end of the day, it has been built and as much as it pains to admit it as an engineer, it’s “solved” - to the extent that…

Basically every aspect of Amazon's retail business is solved by now. Getting all of those indivodual pieces together, and working, at scale and continously is what sets Amazon apart from everyone else.

eCommerce stores? e.g.Shopify

Logistics? e.g. CargoWise

And it goes on.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#353

Post by VirusNewbie »

paxys wrote: post #271
msoad wrote: post #4

I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car. The best car that I've ever driven but I'm not sure if it has anything that other car manufacturers can't replicate. I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

What is laughable is thinking that Apple (or anyone else) can just walk into a multi-trillion dollar industry with zero prior experience and displace existing players. Heck they have even tried to build a car/self driving tech for many years now and constantly failed at it.

Didn’t they do that with cell phones?

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#354

Post by myko »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #113
msoad wrote: post #4

I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car. The best car that I've ever driven but I'm not sure if it has anything that other car manufacturers can't replicate. I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

That's just it. I see it as follows. Back in the 2000s, the iPhone came out. Especially with the 3G, it was miles ahead of the competition, and it took Android manufacturers five years to catch up and overtake it. I believe Tesla holds - or, held - a similar position. They had a head start in many areas, but they could not keep it up. One big difference is quality; Apple phones have great build quality, always have -…

> I think Tesla will pivot from a car manufacturer to a battery manufacturer

Tesla buys their batteries, though. They could/should sell the motors perhaps?

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#355

Post by zaroth »

eatsyourtacos wrote: post #106
judge2020 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference seems to be that Tesla was 5-10 years ahead on everything: Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance, and of course they lead the way in making electric cars viable by showing that they can both look good and blast off in record time. But you're right that other automakers see Tesla as a threat and are catching up; for example, the range and charging curve improvements on mode…

>Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance, Which are all gimmicks. The vast majority of people don't want that from a car. I've been in Telsas plenty of time and absolutely hate it. Yeah it looks cool for a moment, but I would never want that.

I for one absolutely love it. It doesn’t just look cool, it’s maximally functional for all of my use cases.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#356

Post by kwhitefoot »

fowkswe wrote: post #137
wazoox wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually after having tested a couple of other cars, for instance the Renault Megane, the BMW i4 and the Mercedes EQE have better enhanced drive assistance than Tesla. For instance: * when in full-auto on a single lane road, when there's an exit on the right the Tesla 3 almost always slightly swerve towards the exit before coming back in its lane. None of the Megane, the EQE or the BMW i4 do that. * To overtake a slo…

> * To overtake a slower vehicle, the Megane and i4 are better : simply push the left blinker, then the car switch lanes and accelerates BEFORE having entirely switched lane, like a human driver would do. Teslas do this in FSD mode.

My 2015 Model S does this, has done for a long time. No need for FSD, just Autosteer.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#357

Post by zaroth »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #296
phreenet wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's personal preference but I think a good number of people don't know they will be fine without 15 buttons on the steering wheel or 10 different buttons for climate control. I haven't missed any of that moving to a Model 3.

Most of them would rather have buttons on their doors to control the things that have been controlled that way for generations, though. You shouldn't have to hunt through a menu to lock a door.

Why do you have to manually lock a car door? I’ve never pressed the lock/unlock icon on the screen in 4 years of driving my Model 3.

But by the way, you don’t have to hunt thru a menu for it, the lock status icon is pressable and it’s always on the home screen.

Lock and unlock is like start and stop buttons. Almost totally extraneous and easily inferred 99% of the time.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#358

Post by mrguyorama »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #295
lotsofpulp wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not driven many cars, but I feel like there is usually a dial to adjust the brightness of dash lights. At least in Toyotas.

Hah, I had a Camry for 10 years and never knew it had such a dial!

You should read the instruction manual to the over $30k machinery you purchased. There's likely many features you didn't realize were there.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#359

Post by taylodl »

twelve40 wrote: post #213
taylodl wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cringe when I see statements like that. Apple has ZERO EXPERIENCE with automotive design, automotive manufacture, automotive distribution, automotive marketing, and automotive evolution. In other words, Apple KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT ANY ASPECT of the automotive industry. Whether Apple can make a car better than Tesla is a moot point - Tesla isn't able to make cars as well as the other global automakers. Their whole sch…

> Tesla isn't able to make cars as well as the other global automakers can you please point to where you found this data? > experience in all the other areas of automotive manufacture that Tesla does not I believe Tesla is still overvalued, but in 2022 they made 1.3 million cars, so dismissing them as amateurs is simply nonsensical. In 2023, they are a major car manufacturer with tons of experience with the entire pr…

Tesla's poor fit and finish has become legendary, certainly not up to snuff compared to other automakers at their price point. They're not even up to snuff compared to automakers making cars costing half as much.

Another aspect of being an automaker for which Tesla is woefully behind on is service and repair. They've gotten away with it during their first few years because their sales were low and were to enthusiasts. Now things are going to be different because they're selling into the general market at a price point where the customers expectations have been set by the likes of Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, etc. They're going to have an interesting time should they get into an accident and need repairs. It's not uncommon for Tesla customers to have to wait weeks or even months for repairs.

While 1.3 million cars is a decent amount, it pales to Toyota's 8 million cars - which they've been doing now for decades. That's a lot of experience Tesla doesn't have under their belt.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#360

Post by kwhitefoot »

LarryMullins wrote: post #249
dlivingston wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> South Korea’s antitrust regulator said it would impose a 2.85 billion won ($2.2 million) fine on Tesla for failing to tell its customers about the shorter driving range of its electric vehicles in low temperatures. As a Tesla owner: range and ambient air temperature are significantly correlated (i.e., your 300 miles of range plummets to ~120 when below freezing). But, on a good, sunny, warm day, their range claims…

I bet if Tesla were in Detroit instead of California, they'd remember that winter exists.

The place where Teslas form the largest fraction of the car population is Norway. They don't seem to have more problems with winter than any other car brand. I have driven my 2015 Mode S 70D at 1000 m altitude, -20°C, on numerous occasions with no problems at all.

My Model S is certainly better at handling the winter than a Nissan Leaf of the same vintage.

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